If we are talking about legal credit, well then that is another issue. I apologize if I misinterpreted your comment, but it seemed to me you were detracting from their accomplishments because a few songs were not their own. I cannot recall any Beatles recordings that were not written by them being passed off as their own. Led Zeppelin did do that to some extent, but I don’t see how that can affect their legitimacy when they have clearly proven to be forerunners in their own right.
I agree with most of your points Jermo and I was getting at the fact that British Rock invasion was based on black American blues. If we are talking about recording and distribution and selling rights, then we are talking about the law, which is something I am not qualified or interested in talking about. But if we are talking about the principle of taking someone else’s work and using it for your own purposes… well, like I said, that is ingrained in the nature and history of blues.
Does it dampen Zeppelin’s image if they simply take from someone else to further their musical career; yeah, sure it does. But clearly that was not the intent or result of whatever they might have “ripped off”. Led Zeppelin did not just market another person’s song; they made it their own by altering lyrics, rearranging structure and radically changing the sound. A number of recordings stem from traditional blues which may or may not have a single author and was developed over time. Led Zeppelin was the next step in that development. I don’t believe Led Zeppelin ever shied away from acknowledging their roots or sources for their material, but you don’t see them talking about it much because they were not as open to the press and universally appealing as the Beatles.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it is improper (or at the very least shows less creativity) for a band or group to market other people’s music as their own. I think of Glee as the most heinous example. But there is a huge difference in living a musical life on other people’s material and doing what amount to some covers in your early years.
The Beatles and Zep get the credit because they are more popular and popularly recognized than any of the artists they “ripped off”. That is just the way the world works. When somebody says “All along the Watchtower” or “Crossroads” … you don’t think of Bob Dylan and Robert Johnson, you think of Jimi Hendrix and Eric Clapton. It’s not that Hendrix or Clapton or Zeppelin or the Beatles never gave credit because they did (just like everyone else has to) in their liner notes.
You are right, neither was a founder of rock on their own merit. I am not sure anyone can claim that. However, both the Beatles and Led Zeppelin moved rock forward into the form that we see today, which is little changed from the 1960’s.
Rush!!! im going to their time machine tour in detroit in 5 days!!! 2112 for the win!!! :-D
Rush!!! im going to their time machine tour in detroit in 5 days!!! 2112 for the win!!! :-D
I am going to that TOMORROW in TOLEDO… haha! YES!
@SS:
I will only say Rush does have the best drummer ever.
Definitely a candidate.
The Beatles or Led Zeppelin
Dependent on the mood. These are the real founders of Modern Rock, and all that follows.
By ripping off blues and R&B artists?
The question was favorite ROCK band… Yes these Rock pioneers built on the foundations of Country and Western / Rock&Roll / Blues, R&B and more…
But they invented and mastered for all time what we call “Rock Music”. They set the tone and remain the corner stones of all that came after.
Rush!!! im going to their time machine tour in detroit in 5 days!!! 2112 for the win!!! :-D
I am going to that TOMORROW in TOLEDO… haha! YES!
if we had a line id stand on your side of it!
:-D
come on guys, what band can make a 20 minute song by goofing around and have it be a world wide hit?
@SS:
I will only say Rush does have the best drummer ever.
Definitely a candidate.
The Beatles or Led Zeppelin
Dependent on the mood. These are the real founders of Modern Rock, and all that follows.
By ripping off blues and R&B artists?
The question was favorite ROCK band… Yes these Rock pioneers built on the foundations of Country and Western / Rock&Roll / Blues, R&B and more…
But they invented and mastered for all time what we call “Rock Music”. They set the tone and remain the corner stones of all that came after.
I know what the question was, and I answered it. But to claim the Beatles and LZ invented Rock & Roll is naive and just plain wrong. Look at the first couple of years of Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductees. Neither of those bands are on it. The British invasion was just a rebound from the American Rock and Roll origins. The Beatles lead the way, but it wasn’t new. It was just a revival. And every one of them was imitating what American blues and R&B musicians were doing for at least two decades.
They were good and extremely popular, but not innovative. Furthermore, there is plenty of contemporary music that doesn’t owe anything to either one of those bands, whether musicians listened to them or not.
Guns and Roses are high on my list.
Gene Autry ROCKS!
Guns and Roses are high on my list.
Wow… what kind of list!!!
Hey guys it was just a question don’t kill each other over it. I can’t believe I am the only Sabbath fan. I guess I am older than most of you guys.
Rush!!! im going to their time machine tour in detroit in 5 days!!! 2112 for the win!!! :-D
I am going to that TOMORROW in TOLEDO… haha! YES!
if we had a line id stand on your side of it!
:-D
As I would be on your side minke.
same here cminke
lol I LOVE YOU MAN :wink:
RAMMSTEIN!
@SS:
I will only say Rush does have the best drummer ever.
Definitely a candidate.
The Beatles or Led Zeppelin
Dependent on the mood. These are the real founders of Modern Rock, and all that follows.
By ripping off blues and R&B artists?
The question was favorite ROCK band… Yes these Rock pioneers built on the foundations of Country and Western / Rock&Roll / Blues, R&B and more…
But they invented and mastered for all time what we call “Rock Music”. They set the tone and remain the corner stones of all that came after.
I know what the question was, and I answered it. But to claim the Beatles and LZ invented Rock & Roll is naive and just plain wrong. Look at the first couple of years of Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductees. Neither of those bands are on it. The British invasion was just a rebound from the American Rock and Roll origins. The Beatles lead the way, but it wasn’t new. It was just a revival. And every one of them was imitating what American blues and R&B musicians were doing for at least two decades.
They were good and extremely popular, but not innovative. Furthermore, there is plenty of contemporary music that doesn’t owe anything to either one of those bands, whether musicians listened to them or not.
I’m sorry… there must be some confusion. I was not talking about the Beetles… but THE BEATLES! Not Innovative? Are you sure you have ever listened to an Album? And I never said they invented Rock & Roll… if you check what you quoted above I said " they invented and mastered for all time what we call “Rock Music” " - ie: ROCK MUSIC, not Rock & Roll which was an American invention.
Not innovative!? Can someone here who as actually listened to an Album back me up here?
yes i will
@SS:
I will only say Rush does have the best drummer ever.
Definitely a candidate.
The Beatles or Led Zeppelin
Dependent on the mood. These are the real founders of Modern Rock, and all that follows.
By ripping off blues and R&B artists?
The question was favorite ROCK band… Yes these Rock pioneers built on the foundations of Country and Western / Rock&Roll / Blues, R&B and more…
But they invented and mastered for all time what we call “Rock Music”. They set the tone and remain the corner stones of all that came after.
I know what the question was, and I answered it. But to claim the Beatles and LZ invented Rock & Roll is naive and just plain wrong. Look at the first couple of years of Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductees. Neither of those bands are on it. The British invasion was just a rebound from the American Rock and Roll origins. The Beatles lead the way, but it wasn’t new. It was just a revival. And every one of them was imitating what American blues and R&B musicians were doing for at least two decades.
They were good and extremely popular, but not innovative. Furthermore, there is plenty of contemporary music that doesn’t owe anything to either one of those bands, whether musicians listened to them or not.
I’m sorry… there must be some confusion. I was not talking about the Beetles… but THE BEATLES! Not Innovative? Are you sure you have ever listened to an Album? And I never said they invented Rock & Roll… if you check what you quoted above I said " they invented and mastered for all time what we call “Rock Music” " - ie: ROCK MUSIC, not Rock & Roll which was an American invention.
Not innovative!? Can someone here who as actually listened to an Album back me up here?
1. The jargon used is completely absurd. Rock & Roll, Rock Music, Modern rock are synonymous with the exception of the contemporary notion of “modern”. It’s the same style of music, through and through. If you want to throw in some technicalities of language just to give the Beatles credit, then you’re going to have to delve into dozens of subgenres they have nothing to do with, which would contradict your entire point. Modern rock doesn’t sound like the Beatles (ok I’ll give you Oasis) with the exception of the instruments being used, which was not new when the Beatles did it. It’s all the same thing.
2. Show me some innovation. Seriously - I mean, we might be able to see some minor things, but for inventing and mastering and entire genre? Please. I can show you plenty of examples that weren’t innovation. Paul McCartney himself said that Frank Zappa’s concept album Freak Out and The Beach Boys Pet Sounds directly influenced Sgt. Peppers’ Lonely Hearts Club Band. You might be able to point out the sitar’s use as being innovative, but the instrument itself wasn’t new, nor the idea with fusing it into nontraditional Indian music. Certainly one of the first most popular uses, for sure. I’ve already gone over their initial success at covering American music and then later trying to emulate it.
3. I’ve listened to plenty of Beatles music. I own a couple albums. That’s not material to the discussion here.
how many do you own though
I give up…. I respect your opinion and knowledge of music, but I disagree.
Instead of listing them all just Google this term [beatles innovations]
