Alpha vs Beta

“Whiners?”

The whiners led to Alpha Beta and Gamma

“Wah wah wah, I (supposedly) can’t win as the Axis.”

Guess what whiners,  the Axis really did lose!  The OOB rules reflected this!!

Chess is an abstract game recreating no known battle

and yet it is imperfect and our whiners here would still whine about chess becz black

is at a real disadvantage in chess. Every one knows white has an advantage!

If Krieg and Harris had devised Chess and received that complaint they would have gutted chess:

Black and white would have had different setups, they would have given black 4 rooks, devised penalties for white on the 1st turn

and taken away from the rook the ability to kill pawns if the pawns were unaccompanied or some such nonesense.

I can’t understand this willingness to gut the OOB game with ARBITRARY rule changes.

Based not upon the designers vision, but upon a hodge podge of suggestions.

YES IT IS TRUE: TOO MANY COOKS SPOIL THE BROTH!

@Shakespeare:

“Whiners?”

The whiners led to Alpha Beta and Gamma

“Wah wah wah, I (supposedly) can’t win as the Axis.”

Guess what whiners,  the Axis really did lose!  The OOB rules reflected this!!

Chess is an abstract game recreating no known battle

and yet it is imperfect and our whiners here would still whine about chess becz black

is at a real disadvantage in chess. Every one knows white has an advantage!

If Krieg and Harris had devised Chess and received that complaint they would have gutted chess:

Black and white would have had different setups, they would have given black 4 rooks, devised penalties for white on the 1st turn

and taken away from the rook the ability to kill pawns if the pawns were unaccompanied or some such nonesense.

I can’t understand this willingness to gut the OOB game with ARBITRARY rule changes.

Based not upon the designers vision, but upon a hodge podge of suggestions.

YES IT IS TRUE: TOO MANY COOKS SPOIL THE BROTH!

First of all, there is no gamma or even beta.

Second of all, the game is not supposed to reflect history over being balanced.

Third of all, the difference between white and black is so negligible that it is overwhelmed by either a difference in the experience of the players or by a blunder. Not so for OOB AA.

Fourth of all, they are not arbitrary.

Fifth of all, you are not forced to use any of these changes.

Please don’t demean the constructive efforts of those who have worked to make the game better; they have done it for their own satisfaction and the satisfaction of others. Larry obliged because he realized that the game was unbalanced(it was not intentionally unbalanced as you imply). The suggestions made were sometimes bad but often good; those suggestions don’t carry less weight just because they didn’t come from the creator of the game.

I can only assume he’s talking about the pot shot, here subs fire pot shots at unescorted trannies that move from, into, or through the sea zone

Well, that’s the only one that was ever removed.

Yes, yes, let your anger wash over you, let it take control….my young apprentice…Bwah ha ha ha…(say like the Emporer from Return of the Jedi)!

I am kind of enjoying the “open-source” approach to product development A&A is becoming. We are getting to give our input into the FM pieces project and we are getting to give our input to the designs of A&A. In the end we will end up with the greatest board game ever made since it will be so refined. I hope the there is an alpha +3, +4, etc.

If you like a particular version then you can play with those rules, but if we keep developing then the game will get better and better. I will probably always play with the latest rules set, but I will welcome changes.

@Shakespeare:

The rule changes are absolutely ridiculous and call into question the “integrity” of the game and the game design itself!

For every Axis and Allies game in the future NO RULES should be included in the game becz one rule set is just as good as any other rule set;

as all these Alpha machinations have demonstrated.

I have yet to hear about any formal apology issued by Harris or by Kreighund who devised this disaster of thier own making.

The disaster is not the original rules, but thier response to it: PANIC!!

Yes, it is a disaster becz who ever heard of changes in the rules which number in the hundreds. Literally hundreds.

Krieghund you can’t deny that! Neither can Harris.

I am appalled when I try to read the new rules and setups, if they issue a new rules set like Columbia Games;

where the new rules are inserted in red font next to the old rules which remain in black, these new red Alpha, Beta Gamma setups

would bleed the rule book red.

I reject all these changes becz what they tell you is that any rules set is as good as any other.

They no longer have any credibility: subs can’t sink lone transports, what the heck is that all about?

Isn’t that the new rule? Or did I get that wrong becz I refuse to even consider that one. Becz it is so counter intuitive

They rejected a minimalist approach to “correcting” the whiners’ complaints and we get this mess.

Or at least it looks like most of you have bought this Alpha Beta Gamma correction scheme as valid.

This is all just so absurd and disheartening.

YEAH bleep board

@trackmagic:

I am kind of enjoying the “open-source” approach to product development A&A is becoming. We are getting to give our input into the FM pieces project and we are getting to give our input to the designs of A&A. In the end we will end up with the greatest board game ever made since it will be so refined. I hope the there is an alpha +3, +4, etc.

If you like a particular version then you can play with those rules, but if we keep developing then the game will get better and better. I will probably always play with the latest rules set, but I will welcome changes.

I agree

@trackmagic:

I am kind of enjoying the “open-source” approach to product development A&A is becoming. We are getting to give our input into the FM pieces project and we are getting to give our input to the designs of A&A. In the end we will end up with the greatest board game ever made since it will be so refined. I hope the there is an alpha +3, +4, etc.

If you like a particular version then you can play with those rules, but if we keep developing then the game will get better and better. I will probably always play with the latest rules set, but I will welcome changes.

like

trackmagic you have set it all

@Shakespeare:

I have yet to hear about any formal apology issued by Harris or by Kreighund who devised this disaster of thier own making.

Have you ever heard of a weather forecaster apologizing for messing up the forecast? Mistakes happen. To err is human. Larry has been making quality games for years. Once in a while things can go wrong. I play AA42 since I don’t have AAE40 yet to play AAG40. I have had AAP40 on the table 2 or 3 times and never got into the game because there is so much more to remember. All games have errata and I don’t mind that. I prefer the least amount of errata and right now AA42 has the least amount of the A&A games: 3 pages of Q&A with 2 rules clarifications. Kreighund did a great job with the rule book for AA42. I won’t go as far as saying that Larry or Kreighund need to apologize for anything. They are trying to make a bad situation into more of a “this is what should have been in the game in the first place” type of game. Also, Larry has said on his site that these Alpha +2 changes will be made in future reprints of the game. I will pick up AAE40 when I can afford it, but for right now AA42 with some additions from the house rules forum and the AA50 tech that I got from BGG has made for a very enjoyable game for me and those that I play against. I applaud Larry and Kreighund for all of the time and effort that they have done and it sounds to me like they are listening to the fans of the game and trying to incorporate the fans ideas.  Just my 2 cents.

This has been noted somewhere else on this forum but I can think of countless video games i have bought, played for about a month then have 6 or seven different patches to correct the game etc. These are downloaded for free. Making changes to the dynamics and rules of a board game is no different. It is a patch for the board game. It could even be classed as an expansion for a board game which you would normally pay for if it was a video game. Let the creators do their thing. Its their project they can do what they want. There will be a final version, just be patient.