4 Player Idea

@SuperbattleshipYamato

Evaluated my unit using AndrewAAGamer’s system in his post about Global 1940 principles.

Yup, this all sounds fun.

You can just add 2 or 3 infantry and 1 or 2 small boats to the Dutch East Indies if you want and call it a day; that’s thematic and won’t unbalance the game.

Taamvan’s idea of merging all of the various minor Allied powers into a “Free Forces” player is also interesting. It gets at what I see as the core problem: there are several nations whose economies are so small that they don’t mesh comfortably with the pricing structure for Global 1940 units. For example, French North Africa + Central Africa + Madagascar + Syria + Indochina = 10 IPCs…not even enough to buy a minor factory, even if the rules allowed you to collect income or make purchases without a capital. Holland + Congo + Java + Sumatra + Celebes = 15 IPCs…enough for a factory, but not really enough to buy a navy that can accomplish anything against the Japanese. You’d much rather have those IPCs going to the British (or ANZAC), because the start-up costs are too high – if you’re trying to buy a factory, and then some infantry, and then some planes, and then a carrier, and then a transport, well, by the time you can afford all of that, your transport won’t be landing troops anywhere until turn 8, and if you try to skip any of those steps, then your fleet gets sunk or your factory gets captured. ANZAC already starts with some infantry and an air force, so when they earn income they can get it into play much more quickly.

One way to handle this is to mush the French and Dutch and Norwegians and Polish together, so that they all add up to one efficiently-sized power.

The other way to handle this is to scale down part of the Global 1940 economy that deals with minor powers. Infantry and artillery are already affordable for minor powers; the problem is boats and factories. So, make those cheaper and weaker for small powers!

A “patrol boat” costs 5 IPCs, attacks at 1, defends at 1, carries 1 infantry, and moves 1 sea zone. A “training camp” costs 6 IPCs, can be built in any originally owned territory, and can build up to 2 total units each turn, all of which must be either infantry, artillery, patrol boats, AA guns, or fighters. Training camps are destroyed if they are captured by enemy land units. Training camps may be bombed as if they were minor factories; like minor factories, they can accumulate up to 6 damage and lose one point of production capacity for each point of unrepaired damage.

The only minor powers are France, Holland/Belgium, and China. Minor powers can collect and spend income even when they do not have a capital. Only minor powers can build training camps or patrol boats.

After having its capital looted, France becomes a minor power for the rest of the game and follows all of the ordinary rules for a minor power. Liberating Paris does not restore France to its status as a major power. In addition to its usual starting units, France starts with a training camp in French Equatorial Africa.

Holland/Belgium is already a minor power at the start of the game, and owns Congo, Java, Sumatra, Celebes, and Dutch New Guinea. Holland starts with an infantry in Java and Sumatra, a patrol boat in SZ 44, and a training camp in Dutch New Guinea. ANZAC’s national objective can now be fulfilled even if Dutch New Guinea is controlled by the Dutch. Neither the UK nor ANZAC may “nationalize” Dutch territories, although Dutch territories are Allied territories, and so the UK and ANZAC (and America, once it joins the war) may freely land fighters and other units there.

China is a minor power at the start of the game, and in addition to its usual starting setup, China also starts with training camps in Yunnan, Szechuan, Sikang, Shensi, and Suiyuan. The “special rules” for China no longer apply; China is just an ordinary minor power. Yes, this means China can now build artillery or fighters on any turn that China can afford them, and it means Chinese units can roam freely outside of China – but it also somewhat limits China’s ability to deploy units to arbitrary new territories.

I would highly, highly recommend going “Three-Turns per Round”.

Axis Powers go first.

Then, Russia & China go.

Finally, Allies go.

If you have 8 players that know what they’re doing, this makes a very intense G40 game happen in about 7 or 8 hours.

Axis and Allied forces can attack together.  Russia may not attack with Allied forces.  China also may not attack together with Allied forces.

I was going to create a 1940 game based off of Doug Friend’s 1939 game. I want to create a 1940 game based off of Global 1939, but with fewer Russian territories. I would like to create a 1940 game with an appropriate Dutch roundel. The Dutch roundel for Axis & Allies Global 1940 is historically inaccurate because the Dutch dropped that roundel in late 1939 in favor of the orange triangle symbol.  I was thinking of making a new Global 1940 game for Doug Friend again.

I have the files on one of my hard drives. I want to download Global 1939 and modify it for 1940 or possibly 1942 with Iraq as a pro-Axis neutral. I was thinking of creating Amazonas for Brazil.  I have gotten people interested in my World War I game already. I was thinking of also creating a game about Wake Island.  I want to recreate World War I from Axis & Allies. I would like to see if any World War I themed plastic miniatures could be made. I would like to see some World War I Russian pieces spray-painted the Soviet color from the Axis & Allies series of games.  I would like to see British pieces painted orange for the Japanese and I am not sure what a Chinese uniform from World War I looked like. China was involved in World War I on the Allied side to get back Tsingtao from the Japanese and to get a place at the Versailles Peace Conference.  I have included China and Japan on the same side.

Italy and Japan were on the Allied side in World War I.  I have decided to recreate a 1940 scenario. Could I please buy Doug Friend’s 1939 game and modify it for a 1940 game?

I want to recreate a 1940 game or paint the board for a 1942 game where Japan is poised to invade Australia and the West Coast of the United States of America.  I have decided that I want to create a 1940 or 1942 game.   I have decided to expand the Caribbean to include British islands and to include the Dutch islands in the Caribbean.  My 1940 game is available on my hard drive (if I can get access to it) and I would like World War I themed money for my World War I game and a battle board with silhouettes of World War I tanks, air units, mechanized infantry, battleships, cruisers, destroyers, cavalry, infantry, and submarines.

Transports do not get any attack or defense. They are destroyed when they are attacked by an enemy player.  The game also has France taking back Alsace-Lorraine and I downloaded it off of HBG and there are too many IPC bonuses.  I argue that the game needs to be a little more balanced.  The Central Powers win by controlling London, Petrograd, and Paris. The Allies win by controlling Berlin, Vienna, and Constantinople, as long as one or more Allied capitals are still in Allied hands.

Russia becomes the Soviet Union after turn 4 when the October Revolution happens and the Russian Civil War pits the White Russians against the Bolsheviks.  They control certain territories in Russia and if the White Russians win, then the monarchy is restored and if the Bolsheviks win, then the Soviet Union happens.

The Bolshevik roundel shall be the Soviet Union roundel from the Axis & Allies games.

Coachofmany, (Doug) can you please see if you can print out roundels for my World War I game?  I would like roundels for the United States, ANZAC, Great Britain, Germany, Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Serbia, France, China, Portugal, Belgium, and Japan. I have created the star roundel for the Chinese because the famous white sun against a blue background was not adopted until 1928.

Denmark, Chile, and Sweden are pro-Central Powers neutrals.  ANZAC is in the game played by Great Britain. Japan is controlled by the player that controls Great Britain and is played on Great Britain’s turn.
Brazil is controlled by the United States and so is China. Chinese units are not allowed to leave China at any time.  They may attack Tsingtao when they are at war with the Central Powers.

Italy cannot enter the war until after turn 2.  The United States cannot enter the war until turn 3.  China cannot enter the war until the United States in at war with the Central Powers.

I am not sure of a color for China, so I decided to paint it the pro-Allies neutral color.  I have decided to create 3 infantry for Denmark in case it is attacked by the Allies and about 6 infantry for the Netherlands in case it is attacked by either the Allies or the Central Powers.  Sumatra 1 infantry, Java 1 infantry, Dutch East Indies, 1 infantry, Celebes 1 infantry.

Any suggestions for setup to make it more balanced or at least work properly?

Thanks,
Patchman123.

@toblerone77:

I’m just going to say something here. Excluding your math Baron. The whole point of this rule was to open up a way for SBR against ICs with a loose historical basis. The loose historical depiction of night bombing was to give the attacker a less risky SBR but the penalty was less risk=less reward.

Given the basic concept, I think it is viable. I liked the idea of night fighters but thought it best to drop them. That’s my POV. An SBR that drops interceptors/escort could simulate this simply.

I encourage everyone to post as they like. Personally I like the idea of simply eliminating escorts and interceptors for night raids and reducing AA fire 1@D12. Damage totals are halved. That’s just what I like.

Everyone else, carry on.

Hi Toblerone77,
I don’t know if you play 1942 second edition, but within the optional rule for SBR escort and interception it becomes viable to have such thing as StB playing a role as Night-fighter, because the odds are clearly different from G40 during the regular SBR with escort: all Fgs and StB A1 first strike, while Fg D2.

All you have to do to implement a 1942.2 Night bombing & Night Fighter HR is this when playing with escort and interception optional rule:

Day SBR damage on IC becomes 1D6+2/StB, instead of just D6.

During 1942.2 Night SBR, the damage becomes D6-1/StB (or D6+2 halved rounding down, if you prefer).

In addition, all attacking StBs and defending StB Night-fighters roll a regular A/D@1, same as G40 SBR escort and interception rule.

The AAA fire @1 in both cases, Day or Night SBRs.

These 2 things will make all the basics 1:1, StB vs Fg/StB Night Fg, balance.

Day SBR:
StB vs AAA, damage + 4.583 - casualty 2.0 = +2.583 IPC damage/StB
StB vs Fg+AAA,  damage + 4.977 - casualty 4.777 = + 0.2 IPC damage/StB

Night SBR:
StB vs AAA, damage +2.083 - casualty 2.0 = +.083 IPC damage/StB
StB vs StB NF+AAA, damage +3.736 - casualty 3.667 = + 0.069 IPCs damage/StB run

So, Night SBR is better when there is more than 1 Fg defending an IC, and it is still an even match for both sides (near 0 IPC) to throw 1 StB against a StB NightF.

But, if there is only 1 Fg on the IC, the Day SBR is still positively better (.2 vs .069).

In addition, there is less StB and money in 1942.2 compared to G40, so there is lesser chance that StBs presence will forbids any Night SBR.

To summarize the viable SBR tactics with this 1942.2 HR:

No Fgs on IC, go for Day-SBR 2 or more Fgs on IC, go for Night-SBR unless there is more than 1 Night-Fg for 1 StB raider. Keeping a 1 Fg + (1 StB :1 Fg) advantage for Day bombing is better. Or staying within the 1 StB and 1 Fg vs 2 Fgs is the lower limit, it is still viable around 0.00 IPC/StB run.
So, going 1:1 vs Day or Night is almost the same risks involved, but with less damage & casualty in Night SBR.

What do you think of this?

Now, Night Bombing can be viable in both games.

Here is the calculation basis for this 1942.2 Night bombing with Night Fgs House Rule:

OOB 1942.2: 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 3.5 IPCs = 2.9 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCs
Sum: 2.9 - 2 = +.9 IPC damage/StB

OOB 1942.2 SBR with D6 damage:
1 StB A1 first strike against 1 intercepting Fg D2

StB roll (D6)/Fg roll / AAA roll

161= 6/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg killed: 2.78%
165= 30/216 no casualty vs 1 Fg killed: 13.89%

526= 60/216 StB killed by Fg: 27.78%
541= 20/216 StB killed by AAA: 9.25%
545= 100/216 both survived: 46.3%

Results with :
60.19% * ((1+6) IPCs)/2= +3.5 IPCs) = 2.107 IPCs
16.67% killing Fg *+10 IPC = + 1.667 IPC
39.81% StB killed *-12 IPCs = - 4.777 IPCs

Sum: 3.774 - 4.777 = - 1.0 IPC damage/StB

1942.2 HR damage D6+2 : 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 5.5 IPCs = 4.583 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCs
Sum: 4.583 - 2.0 = +2.583 IPC damage/StB

1942.2 SBR HR with D6+2 damage:
1 StB A1 first strike against 1 intercepting Fg D2

StB roll (D6)/Fg roll / AAA roll

161= 6/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg killed: 2.78%
165= 30/216 no casualty vs 1 Fg killed: 13.89%

526= 60/216 StB killed by Fg: 27.78%
541= 20/216 StB killed by AAA: 9.25%
545= 100/216 both survived: 46.3%

Results with :
60.19% * ((1+2) + (6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = 3.31 IPCs
16.67% killing Fg *+10 IPC = + 1.667 IPC
39.81% StB killed *-12 IPCs = - 4.777 IPCs
Sum: 4.977 - 4.777 = + 0.2 IPC damage/StB

HR for 1942 with StB as Nightfighter interceptor all A1/D1 as in G40 interception rule, damage at D6-1:

1 StB A1 vs 1 StB D1 doing interception

StB roll /Fg roll / AAA roll

116= 6/216 1 StB killed by StB NF vs 1 StB NF killed: 2.78%
151= 5/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 StB NF killed: 2.31%
155= 25/216 no casualty vs 1 StB NF killed: 11.57%

516= 30/216 StB killed by StB NF: 13.89%
551= 25/216 StB killed by AAA: 11.57%
555= 125/216 both survived: 57.87%

Results:
69.44% * ((0+5) IPCs)/2= + 2.5 IPCs) = 1.736 IPCs
16.67% killing StBNFg *+12 IPCs = + 2.00 IPC
30.55% StB killed *-12 IPCs = - 3.667 IPCs

Sum: 3.736 - 3.667 = + 0.069 IPCs damage/StB run

1942.2 HR damage D6-1: 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 2.5 IPCs = 2.083 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCs
Sum: +2.083 - 2 = +.083 IPC damage/StB

1942.2, damage D6+2: 1 StB & 1 Fg A1 first strike doing Day-SBR against 2 intercepting Fgs D2

StB+Fg rolls/interceptors Fgs roll/ AAA roll = odds   casualties

1/3636/361/6   = 36/7776      1 StB killed by AAA vs 2 Fgs : .5%
1/3636/365/6 = 180/7776      no casualty vs 2 Fgs : 2.3%

10/3612/361/6 = 120/7776    1 Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg : 1.5%
10/3612/365/6 = 600/7776    1 Fg  vs 1 Fg : 7.7%
10/3624/361/6=  240/7776    1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg : 3.1%
10/3624/365/6 = 1200/7776   no casualty vs 1 Fg : 15.4%

25/364/366/6   = 600/7776    1 Fg and 1 StB killed by Fg vs no casualty : 7.7%
25/3616/361/6 = 400/7776    1 Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty : 5.2%
25/3616/365/6 = 2000/7776  1 Fg vs no casualty : 25.7%
25/3616/361/6 = 400/7776    1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty : 5.2%
25/3616/365/6 = 2000/7776   no casualty at all : 25.7%

Results:
Bombard on IC: 76.8% * ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = 4.224 IPCs
Killing 2 Fgs: 2.8%+20 IPCs =   + 0.56 IPC
Killing 1 Fg: 27.7% +10 IPCs =  + 2.77 IPCs
Fg killed: 33.4%-10 IPCs =        - 3.34 IPCs
StB killed: 8.8%-12 IPCs =       - 1.056 IPCs
StB & Fg killed: 14.4%*-22 IPCs = - 3.168 IPCs

Sum: 7.554 - 7.564 = - 0.01 IPCs damage/StB

Well, i guess it could represent an inhabited land. I have not really thought about its representation all that much. I just thought that this was a good idea for an addition to the game. In my opinion, i guess the “houses” could represent a land that has been fortified, mechanized, or one that has a barracks? It’s all up to the player i think.

Divide by 6.

I find the opposite… most people like to gamble. Because they can score more hits :D

Just ask yourself… If 3 of your infantry get waxed by an overwhelming force in one turn.  Do you take the 1 statistical hit, or chance for 3 hits on your opponent!?

oh no
I did very misleading typo  :cry:

“after all combat moves are declared”
should read
“after all non-combat moves are declared”

only air units have the mobility to reinforced rapidly (before combat)

IL, recall land units’ ability to reinforce BEFORE combat led to legendary exploitation and complex rules after rules to fix