Failed amphibious assault, sea battle - retreat question

Must you send a lone sub against a huge fleet that is blocking the way that is preventing you from bringing a carrier into position (say during NCM) to pick up planes that could potentially survive and need a landing space from some other battle, even though you “know” that you cannot win this battle in any event and that the planes will end up ditching?

Yes in low luck, and yes without.  The only hitch here is that you MUST send the sub to make this attack.  You cannot win a battle you do not attempt to fight.

I do see what you are saying, that in low luck, there are no “hits and misses” and therefore, since the attack could never be won without immense luck, that it doesn’t meet the summary judgment rule (all attacker hits and all defender misses).  But as you also mention, low luck is a tacked-on rule, so we just go back to what it says in the main rulebook;  if there is any chance no matter how slight of you winning, you can bring the fighters as long as you make some attempt with at least 1 unit to clear the crucial zone.  The sub still meets the test of the rule even though low luck makes its odds go from 1% to 0%.

What if we attack the blocking fleet with a (damaged?) aircraft carrier, alone, which has no combat rating and therefore, can never “inevitably” hit?  Maybe this is an even gameyer test of this rule (though we may find some other rule that states that you have to bring at least 1 attacker with attack value into a combat…)

Ah, that makes sense now. Thank you

Perhaps my explanation in the video was confusing in that sense, my goal was to help people use the rule properly, but yes… the hits are applied to the convoy zone, and it’s the total value of the adjacent territories that cap the damage.

@corporal:

ofcourse having those transports in the Baltic makes for a great way to dump troops into Lenningrad if you opt for Barbarossa instead. Make sure you protect those transports near airbases that way you can scramble as well. I like to have 5 transports just outside of Lenningrad and 5 in SZ 113. That gives you 10 new units to drop into Lenningrad plus what you build there.

I once got a Sealion of opportunity that way. I bought a carrier and 2 transports G1. UK 1 fighter and 6 infantry for London, plus my subs in SZ 106 failed so he brought over that DD and transport with 1 infantry and 1 tank. I decided that Sealion was a “no-go”. On G2, I bought 2 more transports along with some planes, ships and land units. On G3 I attacked Russia and used those 5 transports to hit Leningrad. All was successful and I was making good gains against the Russians.
UK saw this and got a little careless. He didn’t buy any more for London and used up his stack of men in invasions of Normandy, Holland and Norway. All were successful, but I also took them all back. I had to use those 5 transports to take Norway back with men and artillery/tanks from W Germany. My Baltic fleet plus planes also sank his transports and their escorts in SZ 112. This was round 7 when I took Norway back.
The US was mostly occupied with Japan so they weren’t doing much in the Atlantic, mostly bombing my factories and building an invasion force to hit Italy, but it was still in E USA at this time. This was when the UK made a fatal error. Instead of dumping a stack of men to protect London, they replaced the lost transports and a couple of warships for escorts. London was relatively lightly defended, mostly with tanks and men to go on the transports. So, on G8 I loaded my 5 transports and hit London and took it, which also got rid of the US bomber threat.
A couple of rounds later, the US did manage to get over there and liberate London and even sank my fleet, but Italy had gotten to Cairo and I took Moscow by that time. Next round I took Stalingrad and we had an Axis win on the Europe board.

@suprise:

Page 18 of the Euro rule book and page 16 of the Pacific rule book
  My interp. of this is 1 sub, 1 carr with 2 planes. the sub gets a hit what happens …… the carr is tipped and the planes are in the air  if the sub does not fire a second shot then the planes need to land within their movement allowance. If you had 2 subs and they both hit then the carr would go down  I would say the planes would get away because subs cant hit air units
  Those two pages answer the Q’s for me

The movement allowance is only one when defending. The planes would need to land on an adjacent island, coastal tt, or friendly carrier w/room on board.

@calvinhobbesliker:

Actually, they will die. The procedure for aircraft retreat is different from sea or land retreat: the air units break off and land anywhere withing their remaining range. Since the plane had zero movement points left, it dies if you retreat

Correct.

@cressman8064:

@Get:

can they build a Minor IC then upgrade it to a Major IC, since the rules do not state anything about upgrading it to a Major IC.

Upgrading a minor to major on foreign soil still counts as building a major, so with the new rules Korea is the only location Japan can build a major anywhere in the world.

Or Japan, assuming it falls and is retaken.

No. It just stays there.

(Unless it is in a Chinese territory… then it is removed.)