Allied Destroyers do not negate the defending SS abilities?

@waxenhen4 said in Allies getting destroyed every game?:

@Contango thanks for the pictures

So is the most optimal counter for an all in Russia attack really abandoning EVERY thing except Moscow? I suppose this would deny the VC but give Germany almost all of Russia’s ipc value for free.

the UK advice seems pretty strong but what do you think makes a better permanent main landing for the allies: Normandy, north/south Italy, or south France? (assume your not playing a mod that appears to have made southern France neutral)

For Russia it might be a bit strong to say to abandon absolutely everything. I think you can justify deviating from a full on retreat under certain circumstances:

You can make a case that your deviation stands a good chance of actually helping your Moscow odds.

Examples:

Trading units to re-take Novgorod, Ukraine and Volgograd -> not only kills German units but also denies factory usage Sending some mechanized units to kill small groups of German tanks/mechs trying to do a Northern run-by to gobble up income If Germany moves ahead too quickly, or splits up and leaves you an opportunity to strafe his army and still be safe afterwards, (a strafe is where you make an attack with intentions of retreating on purpose) or otherwise leaves you a lucrative unit trade Germany has allocated resources away from Russia, so Russia can now flip to offense.

Examples:

German production switches heavily to the Atlantic Germany decides to do a mid-game Sea Lion Germany goes hard with mechanized units into the middle east leaving you outnumbering his slower army

As for my thoughts on an Allied permanent landing:

Normandy is probably the best:

Free factory Opportunity for UK ground troops to use US transports easily UK Air cover (watch the Italians taking out your airbase before Germany’s turn) UK production of extra naval units if things get lively and it’s necessary Furthest from Moscow, meaning German planes have to pick one or the other German infantry/artillery have to move off of defending West Germany to get there Can quickly switch to the Med if you see opportunity Threat of sniping Berlin (US takes Denmark, UK follows up with transports to Berlin)

I find Norway is good, but kind of situational. You can sometimes really annoy Germany with a small investment of suicided transports and not taking your entire fleet out of position and away from air cover.

@Caesar-Seriona said in Multiple pro allied neutrals:

To simplify the rule for any new players that read this; you cannot blitz through a friendly neutral I.E. they stop once they enter.

Just to avoid confusion:

We are not talking about “blitzing” here, as “blitzing” is a combat move, involving hostile territories.

Moving into a friendly neutral territory takes place during Noncombat Move Phase. This is a noncombat move that is further restricted by the above quoted rule.

Also depends on IF:
UK brings in the extra Ftr and a Bmbr.

But as SH allready explained:
What is your goal with Italy. Stall as long as possible UK in the Med.?
Getting aggressiv?
Looking for NO’ s?
Or soften UK RN for the German Luftwaffe?

If you scramble with Italy or not reveals also your future Plans in the Med. :wink:

Thank you again for all the helpful advice. You were right on my misstep with Germany building 10 units on Paris instead of 3. You also have good ideas about buying artillery, which I was thinking because you can combine them with infantry to get attack or defense at 2. And the United States targeting Norway/Denmark/Western Germany combined with bombers is helpful. Thanks again for all the great advice from such nice players; you guys are awesome.
AxisandAlliesGeneral

Guys,

––Just to add to your answer a bit. ‘Kreighund’, the rules guy, basically said that in order to CONQUER an Allied teritory, there must be a ‘COMBAT’. What that in essence means is that the teritory must have been previously conquered by an Axis power.
----If the Allied territory still has the same ownership after having it’s Capital subjugated,…you are simply ‘Re-inforcing’ the territory for the current owner.

Tall Paul"

Thanks for the welcome Variance!

You are guessing correctly ^.^:
If the UK (in our group) sees that Germany is going ‘full bore’ (I guess that means throwing everything at Moscow to defeat it G6 or G7), then it starts channeling its fighters from wherever it must build them (Britain, Canada, South Africa and India) into Russia and finally into Moscow. All this happens Either via the northern route or via Persia/Africa (building a key AB here and/or there).
  UK is OK to sacrifice its ships in the med. to keep every plane alive, annihilate the Italian Navy first and to prevent any new axis ships to appear there.
Subsequently the aircraft help to destroy the Italian presence in Africa (from set-up plus maybe 1 turn of reinforcements) and then the aircraft flies into the Middle east, ready to go into Russia whilst trying not to disrupt Russia’s NO of having Archangelsk-route. But the UK fighters in russia are more important than the Russian NO if the threat is high enough.

This is why our UK is always strong while at the same time being able to be in Russia with their FTRs on time, giving Germany (statistically) no chance on Moscow, not even if it goes full bore. If it doesnt go in full bore than all those UK FTR can go elsewhere as a very flexible force. For example, fly into the areas in Europe that the US captures, stay in the med, fly to India to recapture Calcutta or prevent it from being taken… you name it).

So perhaps we don’t play Germany as optimally as possible ;-).
The best I have ever come up with myself is hitting Moscow with around 230 attack factors G6 (buying 4 STR G5, 4 TAC/STR G4, ARM+MECH G3&G2, ART+INF G1) while Russia alone I believe cannot have more than around 195 defense factors, their AAA still excluded. Combined with the UK FTR however, this can easily be too much over the 230 German attack factors. This combined with sufficiently enough more allied units, a full bore axis attack on Moscow is in our group a statistical fail.

Anyway, a quick calculation shows me that an all STR German build can reach to approx. 200 Attack factors and has way less defense factors so my guess is it will fail to deliver the message to Moscow.

I am looking for Axis strategies to counter the allied dominance (in my eyes) but Perhaps I should then move on to another thread or start one myself  8-).

I will definately look into the tripleA program if I have the time, thanks!

theRocmonster,

You are correct that if Germany builds a carrier, destroyer and submarine on G1 and brings in some planes to scramble from Western Germany it is very hard for the British navy to drive them from the sea on UK1.

The German assault on England via Sea Lion on G3 is not automatic. They have to successfully complete two strategic bombing raids and repel the British navy on Uk1 with little or no loss to their air force. But you are right, if they do, they only face 16 Infantry (on average), 1 Artillery, 6 Fighters (assuming they lost none in interceptor duty), 1 Tactical Bomber, 1 Bomber, and 4 Anti-Aircraft Guns. The Germans will bring 22 ground troops, 5 Fighters, 5 Tactical Bombers and 2 Strategic Bombers. Even with the Anti-Aircraft Guns the Germans should roll over the British.

But I don’t see any way to stop Sea Lion. Unless the game designer intended for Sea Lion to be a weak strategy because of the removal of the German NO for London and the new rule allowing Russia to invade if London falls.

I just have not played any games where London fell under the new rules so I don’t know how the Russian offensive strategy will play out vs Germany and the Balkans on R3. As soon as I do, I will let you know.

I bought it at coolstuffinc, 60$ each. In the malls they are like rip off 100$ ea
So I think Coolstuffinc is the best. unless used.

Buy it new and go through the awesome pleasure of popping the cardboard popouts for an hour! :mrgreen: