Need help forming strategy: Operation Penta-"gone". When US builds KIF?

@JamesAleman:

Therefor, once at war, Japan, Italy, and Germany are all free to occupy Canada while keeping the US neutral during the first three turns of the game, assuming Japan holds back and does not provoke the US into war by attacking first and UK-India or ANZAC declared war on Japan first.

Incidentally, a reread of the sentence with the phrase “American territories” indicated that the word territories refers to the 4 nations listed before that word. That paragraph spells out what attacks Japan can make that will result in all out war. It continues to list troops and ships attacks as also bringing the Pacific into all out war. This paragraph does not apply when UK or ANZAC declare war first, thus you should use the 3rd paragraph to determine that the US will remain neutral until the US Collect Income phase on turn 3, assuming Japan does not declare war on the US prior to that turn.

(…)  It clearly calls for an “unprovoked” declaration of war by Japan on UK or ANZAC before it can declare war “early”. Clearly, if UK or ANZAC declare war first, there is no “unprovoked” declaration by Japan.

Well, things like this are part of the reason why UK/ANZAC should never éver declare war on japan.

They have no valid reason to do so as well: no bait is beneficial enough for them to grab (before turn 3), knowing they keep their strongest future ally out of the war.
And they have better things to do: grabbing bonuses and islands, gathering money, getting stronger and preparing for the merciless beating they’re gonna get from japan  :-D

So, although they are clever strategies, they really need a big sticker “against newbies only”

@JamesAleman:

The nice thing about seizing Alberta turn G3 (in a US/USSR 3 turn neutral plan), it permits the Japanese air force to get to the Atlantic faster than any other route.

I thus plan on keeping this as part of any London first Axis plan,

This is brilliant.  Call it Kill Russia Last.

You don’t need to The Commonwealth to declare war for you.  Go ahead and declare J3 in order to fly over BC.  (incidentally, I think you should land  2 infantry, one tank, and on anti air craft gun to Alberta G3).  Unless America has bought heavy ground units, you can hold Alberta.

If America does build ground troops, You can still hold UK for some time (though I haven’t decided if this is worth the price).  If This draws enough resources to let Japan into Panama J4 (and through J5), it will be a long time before The US establishes any European campaigns.  The US needs to Threaten Alberta turn three, and defend East US from Japan, and hold Panama (or produce a counter assault).

KRL might just work even if USA sees it coming.  I haven’t had time to really work out a proper response for US, but if you can take England and hold USA off for several turns, The Axis may have a shot.  German survivors in UK  can move to Canada G4 to aid the Japanese, or move back to West Germany to protect against Russia.

@JamesAleman:

I realize it is possible (although unlikely at first) for the UK to stage 2 infantry and 1 armor in Alberta by turn 2. Using Ontario and Quebec starting forces. This should be clear by turn G2.

Let them.  Attack it with 2 tans and two infantry - Quebec can wait.

@JamesAleman:

The nice thing about seizing Alberta turn G3 (in a US/USSR 3 turn neutral plan), it permits the Japanese air force to get to the Atlantic faster than any other route.

i’m confused (alot of strat on these pages)…  how does Germany reach Alberta in turn 3?

@JamesAleman:

Sorry for the various strats, trying to “figure” out a viable way to pull it off.

Germany reaches Alberta on G3, by moving from Iceland (sz123) to Alberta (sz121) as the northern most part of Alberta “reaches” around at the top to connect to sz121 by about an inch of its border(right next to Greenland). Sea zone 121 appears to connect to Greenland/Quebec/Alberta.

Its weird, but Alberta seems to be one of the tallest territories on the map (Japan or Brazil might be taller). (With a German air base, Japan can fly 5 from there to reach Scotland or sea zone 101 if they can land in Ontario/Quebec/New Brunswick; Iceland is only 4 spaces away).

Anyway, in Global, unless someone sees this coming, the air base in Soviet Far East, and the German transports in Iceland may not tip off the US that Alberta is the goal. Again, even if not going after the U.S., this “appears” to be the fastest way to get to the Atlantic in Global.

Personally, I see more UK-India players, with the money they have from not being attacked, declare war on Japan UK2 just to liberate Yunnan for China, since they go before China and can thus assure the Burma road N/O. It would be a vary cautious UK player that waits while China fights Japan.

No need to be sorry, it is hard to avoid in a growing topic.  :-)

I like reading your thinking faraway from any box strategies, they are always daring and surprising. You do have to assume alot of actions/purchases from Allied side (and i realize: if not you cannot think past turn 2) and that will probably be the weak spot in these strategies.
By the way, i usually plays the Allies so i read your strats from that point of vies (don’t know if that is good or bad)

Now, an airbase in Sov. Far East should raise more than a few eyebrows in the Allied camp, as that location clearly points so North America/Canada (any other directions make no sense, so they will know you’ll be going out for them, only they cannot know exactly which territory you’ll aim for) and flying over Brit. Col is quite a clever move, and a nice exercise in synchronisation.

I do wonder how all this would affect the rest of the game.

By the way, thinking as India, i would still not attack Japan, but instead use my extra resources to help out in the Middle-East and Africa. Or just to build up forces (it would depend on the situation). It’s only 3 turns until war will start anyway, there’s enough useful to be done until that time. I’d prefer for Russia to help out abit in China.

Edit: yeah maybe i am very cautious

@JamesAleman:

Anyway, in Global, unless someone sees this coming, the air base in Soviet Far East, and the German transports in Iceland may not tip off the US that Alberta is the goal. Again, even if not going after the U.S., this “appears” to be the fastest way to get to the Atlantic in Global.

If they do see it coming, USA needs to build enough ground forces to blow up Alberta (you can land three German units plus an aa there), as well as hold Western from a potential J3 assault (parking the bulk of the IJN in sz12 prevents US navy from blocking Hawaii or California).  They also want to prevent (or beat back) a J4 landing in Panama, lest the IJN reach the Atlantic.

I think USA might have their hands full even if you tell them your plan.

@JamesAlemanlink=topic=20678.msg703769#msg703769date=1287728978:

Personally, I see more UK-India players, with the money they have from not being attacked, declare war on Japan UK2 just to liberate Yunnan for China, since they go before China and can thus assure the Burma road N/O. It would be a vary cautious UK player that waits while China fights Japan.

In my games India focuses on Africa and the Mediterranean.  So while they might be happy to liberate Yunnan, they may not have the resources in that area.  It’s true though, the only consequences of a UK2 DOW are limited to whatever Japan can do to UK on J3.  Allies might not see flying over BC as a threat.

@JamesAleman:

I’m currently waiting on a ruling regarding what territories C.US borders.

Did you ever get that ruling?  On the back of the board (where the picture is wrapped around) Central US clearly touches Alberta.  But if we get a ruling that the two don’t touch, the Japanese air force is safe in Alberta even if they declare war so as to fly over BC.

I have a few problems with all of this as follows…

1. As pointed out the Uk has no reason to declare on Japan…the USA player would kill the brit player if they did that. This would be a case of the allied players not talking to each other. In which case they are going to lose anyway.

2. The USA player can’t be so stupid as to disreguard threats near them, you can’t suprise them really. Again if the USA player is that stupid you don’t need weird tactics to beat them, you can beat them straight up through tactics.

@RedHunter:

I have a few problems with all of this as follows…

1. As pointed out the Uk has no reason to declare on Japan…the USA player would kill the brit player if they did that. This would be a case of the allied players not talking to each other. In which case they are going to lose anyway.

2. The USA player can’t be so stupid as to disreguard threats near them, you can’t suprise them really. Again if the USA player is that stupid you don’t need weird tactics to beat them, you can beat them straight up through tactics.

I agree completely on both points.
USA should see anything that can reach it the next turn as serious (especially as it is faraway from all the action so anything within reach is highly suspicious.
Ground troop builds are the right answer (and they are not at all waisted IPC’s, since sooner or later they all will have to board for either Europe or Asia).