Sealion counter

I knew my math work wasn’t 100%!

What do they start with… 1 Brit infantry, 1 French…3 Fighters…get 1 inf from Canada, 1 Armor?  That’s a tactical bomber on the carrier.  Swordfish probably lol…

Agreed. Just threatening sealion does great things for the axis
the margin of error for england is small on the first three turns also.

Great thing is even if you abort and only build up to three transports they are useful for retaking norway and taking lenningrad.

@calvinhobbesliker:

Can’t Germany attack the carrier group with its fleet in Z112 and planes in WGer?

I dont think so, not if they want to kill off the other fleets around the British Home Isles.

I think striking out turn 1 with your fighter, tatical bomber and destroyer  is your best bet. Granted, this is based on the assumption that the German surface fleet is in sz 112, and the battleship has taken a hit destroying the 2 cruisers their on G1. You would be attacking with 3@3 1@4 and 1@2, against 1@3 1@4 1@2(i think?) and then it depends what lands on the carrier, but fiugre its 1@3 and 1@4 (a ftr and Tac combo). Its a risky gambit, of that there is no doubt, and if the dice gods cruse you, then its bye bye London. Granted, the Germans could build their invasion fleet in the baltic, and make this a moot point all together.

@Warpiglet:

With that said, I believe (and it is counterintuitive to my 20+ years of AA playing) that taking London does not win the game.  In addition, it may actually HURT Germany.

I tend to agree with this.  Only played three games of Global, though.

Germany putting too much IPCs in the water spells doom against Russia…  With landing 20+ troops in England round 3, how many troops do you even have left on continental Europe?

how many troops do you even have left on continental Europe?

With the $90 you’re about to spend with Germany?  And the 10 TTs to take them where you feel like?  Alot.

I haven’t played this in a linked game yet, though.

Remember also, again I feel like a broken record, to really pull of Sea Lion, you don’t want to provoke the US.  That means no J1 attack on anybody but China, major setback for Japan, and major threatening British fleet off of India.  Is it worth it??

Carrier buy on Germany 1 is a great move though, probably going to become a gimme move.

I’ve played three games as Germany. In two of them, I took Britain on turn three, but in one I was able to pull off a turn 2 Sealion. That was also the only of the three games that I won. The reason it worked is that Britain decided to write off the home island and flew the three fighters out of there, giving me a favorable battle with 4 land units and all my air.

I don’t think writing off Britain was a bad idea, I just think he should have gone about it differently. I think Britain should do Taranto, build 9 inf and keep the fighters, forcing me to build 9 transports turn 2. Then, on their turn 2, they should fly out the fighters and pump all of their money into the South Africa and Canada factories. This way they turn the tables on Germany, making them the ones reacting to a false threat, in this case the threat of a failed Sealion. The extra transports are now as useless as the extra 10 British units would have been. Sure, Germany gets to keep more land units, but I feel its more valuable to hold back Italy’s ipc production than to kill German units. If the Indians also send some fleet, some troops and some air, I’ve found that Italy can’t get past Egypt in any reasonable amount of time, and if they can’t do that, the Axis as a whole is weak.

@BJCard:

Germany putting too much IPCs in the water spells doom against Russia…  With landing 20+ troops in England round 3, how many troops do you even have left on continental Europe?

Heh, you really need to try out Sealion.  Through the magic of Naval Bases, those transports can come really handy in the Baltic vs. Russia and can even threaten Africa/Gibraltar/America out in the Atlantic.  Building more fleet to distract America is a bitch though, tough to balance out with Russian counteroffensives.

@larrymarx:

I’ve played three games as Germany. In two of them, I took Britain on turn three, but in one I was able to pull off a turn 2 Sealion. That was also the only of the three games that I won. The reason it worked is that Britain decided to write off the home island and flew the three fighters out of there, giving me a favorable battle with 4 land units and all my air.

I don’t think writing off Britain was a bad idea, I just think he should have gone about it differently. I think Britain should do Taranto, build 9 inf and keep the fighters, forcing me to build 9 transports turn 2. Then, on their turn 2, they should fly out the fighters and pump all of their money into the South Africa and Canada factories. This way they turn the tables on Germany, making them the ones reacting to a false threat, in this case the threat of a failed Sealion. The extra transports are now as useless as the extra 10 British units would have been. Sure, Germany gets to keep more land units, but I feel its more valuable to hold back Italy’s ipc production than to kill German units. If the Indians also send some fleet, some troops and some air, I’ve found that Italy can’t get past Egypt in any reasonable amount of time, and if they can’t do that, the Axis as a whole is weak.

Ugh. Abandoning Britain is usually a bad idea.  Those “useless” transports will probably make you regret your statement after Germany takes out Leningrad on Turn 5.  That’s a whole 20 units that can be mobile in 9 different territories in the Baltic, all in one move.  Per turn.

I agree w/ Sgtblitz.

TTs = mobility.

Again folks,
I wanna ask if anybody has any comments on how Sealion strategy (waiting to attack until J3) affects things for Japan in the Pacific???

@larrymarx:

The extra transports are now as useless as the extra 10 British units would have been.

@SgtBlitz:

Those “useless” transports will probably make you regret your statement after Germany takes out Leningrad on Turn 5.  That’s a whole 20 units that can be mobile in 9 different territories in the Baltic, all in one move.  Per turn.

I feel you’re missing the point. Of course the transports aren’t useless, Germany just wouldn’t have built them unless forced into that course of action by Britain defending itself. Germany would rather have built fewer transports and more tanks. Also, the transports aren’t going to die from the Sealion attack, so they’ll exist to take Leningrad on turn 5 no matter what Britain does. All Britain can do is give itself a small chance of repelling Sealion (I haven’t seen it happen), and they can kill a bunch of German infantry and maybe some artillery that Germany is planning on replacing with reinforcements anyways. So the choice is between setting Germany back a half a turn of production or keeping Italy from ever getting to a decent level of production. Because Russia is much tougher to conquer in this version of the game, I think it’s safe to let the Germans keep all that infantry. Africa needs more Allied presence in the beginning of the game to put up a decent defense.

ALRIGHT,  One more time  :?

How does this sealion strategy that you are all so in love with affect your situation in the east???  What happens with Japan if you wait till turn 3 to attack everybody???

This is about Axis and Allies GLOBAL isn’t it???

@spectre_04:

ALRIGHT,  One more time  :?

How does this sealion strategy that you are all so in love with affect your situation in the east???  What happens with Japan if you wait till turn 3 to attack everybody???

This is about Axis and Allies GLOBAL isn’t it???

i did the sea lion strategy last (current game). it didn’t change much from my japan perspective, i have tried to wait til j4 to attack everyone except china and russia to keep the US out until i’m ready for them on all fronts. it should be noted that i didn’t buy extra tt’s on G2, just 2 tt’s and 1 carrier on G1. just enough to force the UK to buy inf and keep italy’s fleet safe on round 1. you can check my post regarding japan here http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20483.0

IF I were Japan and Germany took UK on G2 or G3 I might not let America get into the war IF America had an invasion fleet ready to retake the UK.

In my last game as Japan the UK fell to Sealion G2.  America has purchased Pacific heavy US1 so their small Atlantic navy was still at New York when UK fell.  Guess they were scared of me lol.  Thus Japan felt no pressure not to attack the DEI and all that on J2.

Warning: these experiences are from AA Europe games, so I’ll leave it up to you to judge if it applies here or not.

I did several testgames to see if a) Operation Sea Lion can be stopped by the UK and b) what effect it has on the overall situation in Europe:

• If Germany really invests in a large G3 Operation Sea Lion, it’s almost impossible to stop for the UK. While trying to stop the inevitable and pouring all available resources into defending London, the UK will also be losing on the other fronts … which will make Italy very happy.

• If committed to a large G3 Operation Sea Lion, the German army can not be in a good position in G4 to stop the initial SU4 attacks in the East. If all/most of the forces used in Operation Sea Lion are shipped back to the East, the Germans and Soviets will have roughly equal armies … with the advantage going to the attacker because they can either concentrate attacks against a spread out defender or pick off undefended areas if the defender concentrates.

• The UK can choose to basically ignore Operation Sea Lion and concentrate on the Mediterranean and Africa. Building just enough in the UK to force Germany to go for a large transport fleet, they simply evacuate the Royal Airforce and go after Italy. With London in German hands, the UK still managed to lock down Italy by destroying their entire fleet and concentrating enough units in Africa to prevent Italy from holding Cairo.

• The US will have their first amphibious assault fleet ready at Gibraltar in US4. This forces an already very weak Italy to defend their home territories and forces Germany to use their large bonus from G3 to defend the UK, defend Western Europe, defend Northern Europe and build an army to defeat the Soviet Union … and they should be helping Italy in the Mediterranean too. (Playing Germany, I also wanted to increase my factory capacity and expand the fleet so I could operate in the Baltic and delay the US at the same time … but 90ish IPC just not enough for all that.)

8-)

@Latro

I couldn’t agree more with your strategy. I attempted to suggest the same thing a few days ago but the people on this forum weren’t having it. Hopefully your explanation will make them take it seriously.

The only differences in Global are going to be that if the Allies really focus on the European theater, they can be even more effective. The US makes an additional 17, Russia makes an additional 9, and Britain has forces in the Pacific theater that they can divert to the defense of Egypt. Of course, Japan would be happy if they did, but they should be waiting until J3 or J4 to attack anyways for a Sealion strat.