Converting friendly neutrals

@Ichabod1862 said in Strict Neutrals - Planes Flying Through:

@Krieghund

I get you have been declared an official ruling somehow.

That would be because I was a developer and editor for the game.

I’ve been playing Triplea live a lot lately…gotten used to clicking “DOW on the strict neutrals.” That’s besides the situation really.

Triple A doesn’t get everything right. Some shortcuts are taken for whatever reason. Page 10 of the Rulebook is clear on this matter.

Your ruling to me I think eisegetes into the text a fuller meaning not intended.

Germany conducts combat moves into Turkey while simultaneously combat moving planes through Turkey, but due to the ruling this means they somehow really have to simultaneously respect their air space? Makes no sense which makes me think you exegeted into the rule book an unintended end state.

page. 11 Europe book. “Air units can’t fly over an unfriendly neutral unless they are attacking it.”

The point of the rule on page 11 is that you cannot simply fly planes through strict neutrals in general.

For your interpretation, the rule should say all air units no matter what until AFTER attacking it. Because I think they should be able to fly over it even if just 1 infantry attacks the same neutral territory. The point of the rule is you can’t fly through like ground cannot go into the pripet marshes.

Germany is attacking it with air units. Why the interpretation that other air units cannot simultaneously fly through? The rules intent is to prevent flying through when never and not attacking them in general.

It’s not a ruling, it’s the rule. The rule is straightforward as written. “Air units can’t fly over an unfriendly neutral unless they are attacking it.” It says air units cannot fly over an unfriendly neutral, then provides an exception for attacking it. An air unit that is flying through a neutral territory is not attacking it, so it is not allowed. It may only fly into one to attack it. That is the intent of the rule. Any other interpretation is simply reading something into it that isn’t there.

Per page 11 of the Rulebook, once a neutral territory is invaded, it is no longer neutral, so the restriction no longer applies. However, since all combat movement is simultaneous, the restriction is not lifted until after the combat movement phase in which it was invaded.

I hope this clears things up.

@Stough just remember when playing tripleA that ‘1 more turn’ is never 1 more turn…

@Aaron_the_Warmonger I don’t know exactly the long term goal in Italian hands. The only conclusion I can come up with is to give Italy more of a northern Can Opening attack as well as give Italy more money for longer term play. Again, I find this foolish since it serves great use for Germany anyways. It’s been talked about, as said before, I’ve never seen it done and I have no plans to do it if I am ever Axis. I can see Bulgaria going Italian but not Finland.

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World At War, version: 1.1.9

Game History

Round: 1

Combat Move - Germans
            1 Battleship, 1 Destroyer and 1 Submarine moved from sz16 to sz17
            1 Destroyer moved from sz14 to sz17
            2 EarlyFighters moved from Hamburg to sz17
            1 T.Boat and 1 Transport moved from sz14 to sz16
            2 Artillerys and 3 Infantry moved from Hamburg to sz16
            2 Artillerys and 3 Infantry moved from sz16 to Sweden
            4 Infantry and 1 Tank moved from Gdansk to Danzig
            1 Artillery and 1 Tank moved from Gdansk to Danzig
            2 Infantry moved from Koenigsberg to Estorskaya
            1 Tank moved from Koenigsberg to Danzig
            1 Bomber moved from Berlin to Metz
            6 Infantry and 2 Tanks moved from Muenchen to Metz
            2 Artillerys, 6 Infantry and 1 Tank moved from Koeln to Metz
            2 Tanks moved from Hannofer to Metz
            1 Tank moved from Dresden to Metz
            1 Tank moved from Austrie to Metz
            2 Tanks moved from Nuernberg to Metz
            2 Tanks moved from Hamburg to Metz
            1 EarlyFighter moved from Nuernberg to Metz
            2 Stukas moved from Berlin to Metz
            2 Artillerys and 3 Infantry moved from Austrie to Jugoslavia
            1 Infantry moved from Austrie to Checheslovakya
            4 Infantry moved from Nuernberg to Checheslovakya
            1 Artillery moved from Nuernberg to Checheslovakya
            2 Infantry moved from Nuernberg to Krakow
            1 Infantry moved from Wroclaw to Krakow
            2 Artillerys moved from Wroclaw to Krakow
            2 Infantry and 2 Tanks moved from Wroclaw to Danzig
            1 Submarine moved from sz7 to sz6
            2 Submarines moved from sz6 to sz4
            1 Submarine moved from sz27 to sz22
            1 Submarine moved from sz26 to sz21
            2 Submarines moved from sz22 to sz4
            2 Submarines moved from sz21 to sz4
            1 Submarine moved from sz32 to sz128
            1 Submarine moved from sz56 to sz36
            2 Submarines moved from sz36 to sz139
            1 Submarine moved from sz38 to sz25
            2 Infantry and 2 Tanks moved from Genova to sz40
            1 Destroyer, 2 Infantry, 2 Tanks and 2 Transports moved from sz40 to sz46
            2 Infantry and 2 Tanks moved from sz46 to Tobruk
            2 Tanks moved from Tobruk to N.Sudan

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 1 Elite, 1 Infantry and 7 Tanks; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - Germans
            Battle in sz25
                Germans attack with 1 Submarine
                British defend with 1 Cruiser
                British win with 1 Cruiser remaining. Battle score for attacker is -7
                Casualties for Germans: 1 Submarine
            Battle in sz139
                Germans attack with 2 Submarines
                French defend with 1 Transport
                Germans win with 2 Submarines remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for French: 1 Transport
            Battle in sz128
                Germans attack with 1 Submarine
                Americans defend with 1 Transport
                Germans win with 1 Submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Americans: 1 Transport
            Battle in Estorskaya
                Germans attack with 2 Infantry
                Russians defend with 1 Infantry
                Germans win, taking Estorskaya from Russians with 1 Infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 1 Infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 Infantry
            Battle in sz4
                Germans attack with 6 Submarines
                British defend with 1 Destroyer and 1 Transport
                Germans win with 6 Submarines remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14
                Casualties for British: 1 Destroyer and 1 Transport
            Battle in sz17
                Germans attack with 1 Battleship, 2 Destroyers, 2 EarlyFighters and 1 Submarine
                Russians defend with 1 Destroyer, 2 Submarines and 1 Transport
                Units damaged: 1 Battleship owned by the Germans
                Germans win with 1 Battleship, 2 Destroyers, 2 EarlyFighters and 1 Submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 28
                Casualties for Russians: 1 Destroyer, 2 Submarines and 1 Transport
            Battle in Metz
                Germans attack with 2 Artillerys, 1 Bomber, 1 EarlyFighter, 12 Infantry, 2 Stukas and 11 Tanks
                French defend with 3 Bunkers, 3 Infantry and 1 Tank
                Germans win, taking Metz from French with 2 Artillerys, 1 Bomber, 1 EarlyFighter, 9 Infantry, 2 Stukas and 11 Tanks remaining. Battle score for attacker is 23
                Casualties for Germans: 3 Infantry
                Casualties for French: 3 Bunkers, 3 Infantry and 1 Tank
            Battle in Krakow
                Germans attack with 2 Artillerys and 3 Infantry
                Neutral defend with 2 Infantry and 1 Tank
                1 Artillery retreated to Wroclaw
                Neutral win with 1 Infantry and 1 Tank remaining. Battle score for attacker is -8
                Casualties for Germans: 1 Artillery and 3 Infantry
                Casualties for Neutral: 1 Infantry
            Battle in Danzig
                Germans attack with 1 Artillery, 6 Infantry and 5 Tanks
                Neutral defend with 1 Bunker, 2 Infantry and 1 Tank
                Units damaged: 1 Bunker owned by the Neutral
                Germans loses 0 PUs for violating Danzigs neutrality.
                Germans win, taking Danzig from Neutral with 1 Artillery, 5 Infantry and 5 Tanks remaining. Battle score for attacker is 13
                Casualties for Germans: 1 Infantry
                Casualties for Neutral: 1 Bunker, 2 Infantry and 1 Tank
            Battle in Jugoslavia
                Germans attack with 2 Artillerys and 3 Infantry
                Neutral defend with 3 Infantry
                Germans loses 0 PUs for violating Jugoslavias neutrality.
                Germans win, taking Jugoslavia from Neutral with 2 Artillerys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 3 Infantry
                Casualties for Neutral: 3 Infantry
            Battle in Sweden
                Germans attack with 2 Artillerys and 3 Infantry
                Neutral defend with 1 Bunker
                Germans loses 0 PUs for violating Swedens neutrality.
                Germans win, taking Sweden from Neutral with 2 Artillerys and 3 Infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Neutral: 1 Bunker
            Battle in N.Sudan
                Germans attack with 2 Tanks
                British defend with 1 Infantry
                Germans win, taking N.Sudan from British with 2 Tanks remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
                Casualties for British: 1 Infantry
            Battle in Checheslovakya
                Germans attack with 1 Artillery and 5 Infantry
                Neutral defend with 1 Artillery and 2 Infantry
                Germans loses 0 PUs for violating Checheslovakyas neutrality.
                Germans win, taking Checheslovakya from Neutral with 1 Artillery and 4 Infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Germans: 1 Infantry
                Casualties for Neutral: 1 Artillery and 2 Infantry

Non Combat Move - Germans
            1 Tank moved from Berlin to Koeln
            1 EarlyFighter moved from Metz to Koeln
            2 Stukas moved from Metz to Koeln
            1 Bomber moved from Metz to Koeln
            2 Infantry moved from Hannofer to Gdansk
            2 EarlyFighters moved from sz17 to Hamburg
            3 Infantry moved from Dresden to Nuernberg
            3 Infantry moved from Dresden to Gdansk
            2 Artillerys and 4 Infantry moved from Berlin to Dresden

Place Units - Germans
            3 Tanks placed in Muenchen
            4 Tanks placed in Koeln
            1 Elite and 1 Infantry placed in Hamburg

Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 67 PUs; end with 67 PUs total

@Herr:

Politicians need more time than soldiers. The friendly neutral is expecting a formal delegation to pay a visit, not someone in a tank dashing by and waving “Hi! You’re with us now!”

But I agree that in the game, it’s a bit odd.

Yeah that’s basically it!
Allies stop and wave and Axis, well they…march.  :-)

Fun aside, I agree with you, it is a bit odd.

I was not referring to DEI, but thanx that clarifies that also.  I was referring to the European friendly nuetrals & Eggman cleared that up for me.  Thanx.

He meant to say that UK can declare war, as it always can, but the consequences (USA not stepping in) stay the same. Russian-japanese situation doesn’t influence UK.

hmm I think I just read this on another tread  :-P