Unfortunately, because AA no longer fires on everything (only 3 each), then it can’t really be rolled separately.�
Forgot about this. He lost my interest after Alpha2.
Otherwise, paratroopers should just be immune to AA roles - it’s such a situational tech, pretty rare, probably rarely going to be a game changer, but it certainly shouldn’t serve as an AA screen.
I see. Maybe borrow a common aspect of other wargames - draw to see which units got hit.
For example: 2 AA guns (6 shots maximum)
3 paratrooper units, 3 fighters and 2 bombers attacking (8 units total)
AA scores 1 hit with its 6 rolls @ 1. Hit should be determined randomly, IMO
Put chits in a “hat”. Use country markers. Put in 3 of 1, 3 of another, and 2 of a 3rd country marker. Designate which represents which units. Draw number of hits (1 in this case).
Not very A&A-like, but this is a very logical solution, isn’t it?
Unfortunately, because AA no longer fires on everything (only 3 each), then it can’t really be rolled separately.�
Forgot about this. He lost my interest after Alpha2.
Otherwise, paratroopers should just be immune to AA roles - it’s such a situational tech, pretty rare, probably rarely going to be a game changer, but it certainly shouldn’t serve as an AA screen.
I see. Maybe borrow a common aspect of other wargames - draw to see which units got hit.
For example: 2 AA guns (6 shots maximum)
3 paratrooper units, 3 fighters and 2 bombers attacking (8 units total)AA scores 1 hit with its 6 rolls @ 1. Hit should be determined randomly, IMO
Put chits in a “hat”. Use country markers. Put in 3 of 1, 3 of another, and 2 of a 3rd country marker. Designate which represents which units. Draw number of hits (1 in this case).Not very A&A-like, but this is a very logical solution, isn’t it?
I forgot about the effect of the new AA rules. Kinda messes up my idea to separate them, too. Actually, your random AA gun idea is a lot like A&A Bulge, so it is not too far out. I like it.
Kd: if you make it so the AA gun wipes out all the paras from one airbase at a time, players will just send one para from each airbase and get around your solution. Paras being immune to AA is an interesting solution but it
doesn’t really feel right either, given that they would be vulnerable to it. Gamers who don’t know why that rule existed could sart to complain that they can’t fire at them.
It’s still better than what we have now though, and as paras can only support existing attacks, it means they can’t attack on their own (no more surprise paradrops behind the lines) and are just added to an existing land force. So exempting them from AA is quite a legit workaround, but like I said it doesn’t quite feel right to me.
3 ideas:
1. Do the AA shots as normal (exempting Airborne units). Then ‘reset’ the AA’s for a second phase vs the paras. It may let some AA guns fire twice, but it can be justified by trying to keep things simple and by how slow transport planes are.
2. The defending assigns his shots to 2 categories: planes and paras. Defender has 2 AA guns, attacker has 7 planes and 2 paras. The defender says “I’m gonna shoot 5 dice vs planes and 1 vs paras”. The beauty of this idea is that the defender will really only choose planes (so it is similar to exempting paras), but at least this way he has the option and he can still fire at the attacker if the attacker sends paras but no aircraft.
3. The simple plan. We take a page from the transport rules. Paras are chosen last. This elminates the unrealistic paradrop on the next door territory you could have walked into and stops them from being ‘fighter insurance’. I think this idea is the easiest to implement and it follows precedent.
This solution gives the defender a bit more of a balance (vs the paras ability to cross oceans with no transport) as the para units could activate more AA shots if the defender has a surplus of AA guns. This will keep a power with paras from going too nuts with them. For example, the attacker will not send 6 paras (which is a really unrealistic amount) and a fighter into a territory with 2 aa guns as the odds say fighter is gonna get hit. A player will think twice about heavy para use on a territory that is fortified with aa as it will cost them in escorts–-also realistic. But in most cases, only one or two airbases will be in range, and the defender will rarely have a surplus of AA guns. What I am eliminating here is a late war sleaze move where the USA has taken all western Europe and uses several airbases in territories there to invade germany (which is adjacent), just to block their AA. If they tried that with this rule, all they would accomplish is maximizing Germany’s AA shots. So instead, that will attack by land, and maybe fly in the odd para to actually use as a land unit.
The last thing we want to do is write a bunch of complicated rules for a tech. Of all of the suggestions so far, I think I like the idea of limiting the total number of paratroopers per turn, thus limiting their “shield” potential. The question is, would this make the tech not worth having?
The russians will still greatly prefer it to super subs. :-) Maybe a limit of 2 per turn (can originate from 1 or 2 airbases), per theatre? That will cheer the allies up a bit. If you think about it, it’s like a free transport ship of movement every turn per theatre, and it’s still gonna be used as fodder to save expensive units from AA. That’s a pretty decent tech, I’d say.
Or replace the tech with enhanced transports that can carry mech inf as if they were an inf. :evil: Cool, but not crippling.
Or what if each airbase is required to target a different territory with its paratroopers? That would limit the shield effect to two max for each territory, which still makes any IPCs spent on building extra airbases worthwhile (rather than only allowing two of them to be used each turn), but still putting aircraft at risk more than flooding a single territory with paratroopers as flak magnets. That way a defender can load up on AA and it still be worth it because the paratroopers have to be spread out.
@SAS:
Or what if each airbase is required to target a different territory with its paratroopers? That would limit the shield effect to two max for each territory, which still makes any IPCs spent on building extra airbases worthwhile (rather than only allowing two of them to be used each turn), but still putting aircraft at risk more than flooding a single territory with paratroopers as flak magnets. That way a defender can load up on AA and it still be worth it because the paratroopers have to be spread out.
Let’s do the math. Using my suggestion of 2 paras per turn per theatre. Let’s say the USA has the tech and he he is playing to use them as shields. The axis player is super lucky at rolling ones:
The USA sends 2 paras as shields against Germany and 2 against Japan. They are big battles with lots of air support. The axis both get 2 AA hits. We’ll even assume the USA was only using fighters, the cheapest aircraft. The 4 paras just saved the USA 28 ipcs (7 ipc cost diff times 4). on top of that he gets to move 4 inf for free each turn saving 14 ipcs in transport costs. This is already a HUGE benefit. I would still consider this a very powerful tech. Your suggestion helps with the AA thing a bit. But think about this. Aside from the huge cash benefits I have already shown, each airbase reduces your need for 1 transport ship, so the power has huge incentive to build more as they are basicly unsinkable transports. The 15 cost is nothing if it gives you the normal airbase benefits plus the ability to move inf without ships.
Again, even at just 2 per theatre per turn, the USA is potentially saving 28-36 (if bomber shields) ipcs per turn, plus they are much more fluid with their inf, which can drop from different airbases each turn. It’s a big tech to score.
@SAS:
Or what if each airbase is required to target a different territory with its paratroopers?� That would limit the shield effect to two max for each territory, which still makes any IPCs spent on building extra airbases worthwhile (rather than only allowing two of them to be used each turn), but still putting aircraft at risk more than flooding a single territory with paratroopers as flak magnets.� That way a defender can load up on AA and it still be worth it because the paratroopers have to be spread out.
Let’s do the math. Using my suggestion of 2 paras per turn per theatre. Let’s say the USA has the tech and he he is playing to use them as shields. The axis player is super lucky at rolling ones:
The USA sends 2 paras as shields against Germany and 2 against Japan. They are big battles with lots of air support. The axis both get 2 AA hits. We’ll even assume the USA was only using fighters, the cheapest aircraft. The 4 paras just saved the USA 28 ipcs (7 ipc cost diff times 4). on top of that he gets to move 4 inf for free each turn saving 14 ipcs in transport costs. This is already a HUGE benefit. I would still consider this a very powerful tech. Your suggestion helps with the AA thing a bit. But think about this. Aside from the huge cash benefits I have already shown, each airbase reduces your need for 1 transport ship, so the power has huge incentive to build more as they are basicly unsinkable transports. The 15 cost is nothing if it gives you the normal airbase benefits plus the ability to move inf without ships.
Again, even at just 2 per theatre per turn, the USA is potentially saving 28-36 (if bomber shields) ipcs per turn, plus they are much more fluid with their inf, which can drop from different airbases each turn. It’s a big tech to score.
I’m not debating that it’s still a big advantage even with only being able to send paratroops to different territories, but it’s a vast improvement over the current rule without being quite as restrictive as your suggestion, especially to the Axis, who each are usually only involved in one theater. Furthermore, since you can’t send paratroops as part of a SBR you still have to have other units anyway or your planes could still be toast from first round shots, so that’s going to limit the number of territories you would be attacking on a single turn in the first place. Your rule would mean that the US and UK would get a doubled advantage over any of the other powers in the game (barring a weird Russian airbase build in Siberia or something). That being one of the fews disadvantages, your rule may be better, but I thought I’d offer another simple suggestion that allows more flexibility.
I had thought about it benefitting the UK and USA 2 times vs the axis, but in essence there are really 2 wars going on at the same time and the UK and USA are really the only powers fighting in both so it sort of works out.
Your suggestion is just as valid as mine though. :-)
I’m sure Larry and Kevin will figure something out.
Just had a thought….
For whatever we come up with, can we add the sentence “Paratroopers cannot be dropped in territories adjacent to the territory that launched them.” The ONLY reason someone would to that is to shield aircraft.
If I am doing an amphibious assault through a seazone that has no warships but the territory can choose to scramble fighters do I have to designate units to counter the possible scramble before the battle{this would take them out of the main battle I presume}or does a scramble with nothing designated to counter it automatically stop barrages and makes any warships in the assault take on the srambled fighters?
If the defender scrambles, there will be a sea battle in which all of the attacking units in the sea zone will participate, and there will be no bombardment.
@fighter:
If I am doing an amphibious assault through a seazone that has no warships but the territory can choose to scramble fighters do I have to designate units to counter the possible scramble before the battle{this would take them out of the main battle I presume}or does a scramble with nothing designated to counter it automatically stop barrages and makes any warships in the assault take on the srambled fighters?
Yes, you must put units in the sea zone during your combat move. You do not get to pull units out off the land battle after your combat move phase. This means you must balance your needs for clearing the sea zone and attacking by selecting which units go where before the end of your combat move. When finished, you cannot change things and your opponent decides if and how much to scramble thus making scrambling a powerful tool. Scrambling one air unit causes a sea battle and prevents naval bombardment.
What territories are in the British NO for hold org. European territories?
I assume Scotland, England, Gib
Is Malta European?
Cyprus?
Any territories on the European map count.
I’ve read on the forum where a destroyer can block ship movements but I don’t see anything in the rules to confirm this. If I have 8 ships in a sea zone and attack a destroyer with 2 and take it out can’t I then move through that sea zone with the other 6?
What territories are in the British NO for hold org. European territories?
I assume Scotland, England, Gib
Is Malta European?
Cyprus?
@SAS:
Any territories on the European map count.
Not exactly. The NO says “if the United Kingdom controls all of its original territories in its European economy”. The UK European Economy, as defined in Alpha 3, consists of all of the territories controlled by United Kingdom on the Europe map except for West India, plus any territories in North America that it may control on the Pacific map.
I’ve read on the forum where a destroyer can block ship movements but I don’t see anything in the rules to confirm this. If I have 8 ships in a sea zone and attack a destroyer with 2 and take it out can’t I then move through that sea zone with the other 6?
Yes, in noncombat movement. A destroyer, or any other surface warship, will only block movement during a movement phase in which it exists. In your example, the destroyer exists in the Combat Move phase and therefore blocks movement in that phase. However, it is destroyed in the Conduct Combat phase, and therefore does not exist and cannot block movement in the Noncombat Move phase. If your two ships failed to eliminate the destroyer, it would still exist and block movement in the Noncombat Move phase.
It should be noted that movement blocking works a little differently in the two movement phases. In combat movement, blocking means that a sea unit may enter the sea zone containing the blocking unit in order to attack it, but must end its movement there. In noncombat movement, blocking means that a sea unit may not enter the sea zone containing the blocking unit at all. Of course, submarines are an exception.
Hey guys, I’ve got a question about choosing casualties if there are 2 or more powers in the same alliance involved in a battle.
How are casualties picked if e.g. Japan attacks china which has uk and china troops? Do the allies have to come to an agreement and pick the casualties or…? Thanks!
Also, can you move units that have already participated in the combat phase. e.g. you have won a battle in libya and there are 2 tanks remaining. Can you use those tanks to blitz through other territories?
