@Cmdr:
Since you may end your combat movement in a sea zone regardless of any combat taking place in said sea zone, this implies that the zone is hostile.
Where are you getting this? Why aren’t you quoting the rulebook anywhere? Did you read what kcd said? You are not supposed to move boats in combat move that don’t result in combat - you guys have been bending the rules for convenience. You’ve done it for so long that you think it IS the rule. Show me in the rulebook where it says you can move boats during the combat move phase to friendly sea zones. Better yet, I’ll show you. Read the Europe 1940 manual, page 12, under “Phase 2: Combat move”
“… units can’t end their movement in friendly spaces during the Combat move phase except in four instances:” (and now I paraphrase) Tanks that have blitzed, units escaping from combat (sea units), sea units that will participate in amphibious assault (this would include scrambling - has been clarified by Krieg) and sea units attacking subs/transports (not considered a hostile zone)
And it’s not like this rule was just added with 1940. It’s been with us for a long time, since Classic, I believe.
But wait, if the sea zone must be friendly OR hostile, then we have a contradiction! Since you can obviously place new units in the sea zone, but you cannot build units in a hostile zone, but there are enemy surface warships present and therefore, the zone must be hostile.
Ahhhh but you CAN place naval units in a hostile zone! See page 22 of the Europe manual (like you’ve ever read it and comprehended it) “You can place sea units only in sea zones adjacent to territories containing eligible IC’s. New sea units can enter play even in a hostile sea zone.” Poof. Your argument is in shambles.
Thus, it is established that sea zones are both friendly and hostile simultaniously. It is the only logical solution to the dilemna. Of course, if you wish to supply a counter-proof, please PM me and start a new thread. I would be glad to hear your arguement, even if I won’t agree with it, probably.
Jenn, Jenn, Jenn. And you assert that I need a tutorial in logic. Please. Page 28 of Europe 1940 manual under “Sea Units”: “If enemy units other than transports or submarines occupy a sea zone, the sea zone is hostile…” If a sea zone has no surface warships (of powers with which you are at war), then it is friendly. It is not possible to be both, and I completely kicked out the supporting legs of your argument. To disagree now is to be blind, proud, or stubborn.
If the sea zone has no enemy ships in it, then it is not hostile - as you say, but then, you cannot end your movement phase during CM in it! But wait, YOU CAN, otherwise there would be no rules for shore bombarding, as all instances of moving your Battleships and Cruisers into the sea zone would REQUIRE you to engage in naval combat.
“… units can’t end their movement in friendly spaces during the Combat move phase except in four instances:” (and now I paraphrase) Tanks that have blitzed, units escaping from combat (sea units), sea units that will participate in amphibious assault (this would include scrambling - has been clarified by Krieg) and sea units attacking subs/transports (not considered a hostile zone)
Did you not read what I wrote? It’s one of the four exceptions.
“… units can’t end their movement in friendly spaces during the Combat move phase except in four instances:” (and now I paraphrase) Tanks that have blitzed, units escaping from combat (sea units), sea units that will participate in amphibious assault (this would include scrambling - has been clarified by Krieg) and sea units attacking subs/transports (not considered a hostile zone)
Did you not read what I wrote? It’s one of the four exceptions.
Did you read what I wrote? It’s an exception because sea zones are BOTH hostile AND friendly simultaniously.
Destroyers that come with the ships are not participating in the battle, but they are permitted to go as well. For the record. Because the sea zone (empty) is considered hostile during your combat move. Aircraft Carriers may also end their combat move in an empty sea zone, because it is considered hostile.
However, destroyers and aircraft carriers may also end their non-combat moves in said sea zones because they are considered friendly.
Therefore, they are BOTH friendly AND hostile at the same time when they are empty (or only have enemy submarines and transports present.)
Since there are a lot of stupid questions in this thread I have got one too:
Is it possible to use other nations naval bases? I assume you can use friendly nations bases, but what about neutrals or enemies? More specifically: Can Japan use Uks naval base in Kwangtung? What about the US naval base in the Philippines (when the US is not at war).
Thanks!
Since there are a lot of stupid questions in this thread I have got one too:
Is it possible to use other nations naval bases? I assume you can use friendly nations bases, but what about neutrals or enemies? More specifically: Can Japan use Uks naval base in Kwangtung? What about the US naval base in the Philippines (when the US is not at war).
Thanks!
You can only use bases of your allies who are at war, if you are also at war. For example, the USA cannot use the Queensland naval base until the USA is at war.
Since there are a lot of stupid questions in this thread I have got one too:
Is it possible to use other nations naval bases? I assume you can use friendly nations bases, but what about neutrals or enemies? More specifically: Can Japan use Uks naval base in Kwangtung? What about the US naval base in the Philippines (when the US is not at war).
Thanks!
No. You cannot use another neutral power’s naval base nor an enemy’s naval base. The US can use its own naval bases while neutral and once it is at war (and no sooner) it can use Allied naval bases. The UK/Anzac cannot use the US naval bases until the US is at war. Russia can use its own naval bases and can only use other Allied naval bases once it is at war on that associated board. For example, Russia cannot use a naval base in Kwangtung until both the UK and Russia are at war with Japan (being at war with Germany has no bearing on the Pacific side), and it cannot use the UK London naval base until at war with Germany or Italy (being at war with Japan has no bearing on the Europe side). Although it’s nigh impossible to get a Russian naval unit in play in the pacific.
For example, Russia cannot use a naval base in Kwangtung until both the UK and Russia are at war with Japan
Actually, I don’t think you’re right here (even though it’s probably actually impossible to get a naval unit to Kwa without UK being at war with Japan).
The UK is at war, just not with Japan. If Russia is at war with Japan, then she’s not neutral on the Pacific board. It’s trivial, but I’m not so sure Russia can’t use a UK Pacific naval base before the UK is at war with Japan.
Gamerman01 is right. Because they have no non-aggression pact with Japan, UK and ANZAC are not under the restrictions of a neutral power on the Pacific board when they’re not at war with Japan. If USSR is at war with Japan, but UK/ANZAC is not, USSR may use UK or ANZAC naval bases in the Pacific. Likewise, the US could use UK/ANZAC naval bases if US is at war with Japan and UK/ANZAC is not.
Gamerman01 is right. Because they have no non-aggression pact with Japan, UK and ANZAC are not under the restrictions of a neutral power on the Pacific board when they’re not at war with Japan. If USSR is at war with Japan, but UK/ANZAC is not, USSR may use UK or ANZAC naval bases in the Pacific. Likewise, the US could use UK/ANZAC naval bases if US is at war with Japan and UK/ANZAC is not.
right right, I always forget that board neutrality rules for russia are different from the UK’s. Not that it matters though, because russia will probably never have a naval unit by kwangtung and the UK is pretty much always at war with japan first or at least at the same time as the US.
Gamerman01 is right. Because they have no non-aggression pact with Japan, UK and ANZAC are not under the restrictions of a neutral power on the Pacific board when they’re not at war with Japan. If USSR is at war with Japan, but UK/ANZAC is not, USSR may use UK or ANZAC naval bases in the Pacific. Likewise, the US could use UK/ANZAC naval bases if US is at war with Japan and UK/ANZAC is not.
right right, I always forget that board neutrality rules for russia are different from the UK’s. Not that it matters though, because russia will probably never have a naval unit by kwangtung and the UK is pretty much always at war with japan first or at least at the same time as the US.
Screw that, I will have a Russian Aircraft Carrier in SZ 6! I don’t know when, or who the pitiful fool is that doesn’t surrender first, but I’m sure it will happen one day!
@Cmdr:
“… units can’t end their movement in friendly spaces during the Combat move phase except in four instances:” (and now I paraphrase) Tanks that have blitzed, units escaping from combat (sea units), sea units that will participate in amphibious assault (this would include scrambling - has been clarified by Krieg) and sea units attacking subs/transports (not considered a hostile zone)
Did you not read what I wrote? It’s one of the four exceptions.
Did you read what I wrote? It’s an exception because sea zones are BOTH hostile AND friendly simultaniously.
Destroyers that come with the ships are not participating in the battle, but they are permitted to go as well. For the record. Because the sea zone (empty) is considered hostile during your combat move. Aircraft Carriers may also end their combat move in an empty sea zone, because it is considered hostile.
However, destroyers and aircraft carriers may also end their non-combat moves in said sea zones because they are considered friendly.
Therefore, they are BOTH friendly AND hostile at the same time when they are empty (or only have enemy submarines and transports present.)
What you wrote makes no sense. You cannot move destroyers or any other vessel, FOR THE RECORD, during the combat move if there is no chance of them engaging in battle (no threat of scrambled fighters or kamikazi) BECAUSE the seazone is not nor can be made hostile, therefore, by use of proper logic, it is friendly. LOGIC states that something cannot be 2 opposite things, it is either one or the other. Admit that you are wrong and move on.
Do the Allies need to acually place a unit on Dutch New Guiney in order for ANZAC to achieve their national objective? (the description says Dutch not included).
Yes, a land unit is required in order to take control.
Can Japan use a kamikaze attack on the American destroyer in the Philippines J1?. if so and japan destroyed it, the Jap submarine in from SZ 19 would receive a surprise strike on the remaining American submarine, right? and if I also bring the Jap destroyer from SZ 19 it would negate the defending subs surprise strike, right?. I think I can do all this but I wanted to check and be sure.
Kamikaze may only be used on Allied powers’ turns, as they are defensive weapons.
So, the UK and ANZAC can take control and collect the IPC value from Dutch Islands in the Pacific without being at war with Japan. Is this right? Can the US do this as well?
@Trisdin:
So, the UK and ANZAC can take control and collect the IPC value from Dutch Islands in the Pacific without being at war with Japan. Is this right? Can the US do this as well?
Yes the UK or ANZAC can control and collect Dutch territories without being at war with Japan. (See page 8, The Political situation of the Pacific rulebook)
The USA can never be the first one to take control of a Dutch territory, and this includes Suriname.
This information is contained in the replacement “Page 8, the Political Situation” of the official Pacific 1940 FAQ.
If you do not have this FAQ, you need to get it. Try www.harrisgamedesign.com
So if no one ever takes Sumatra, America can never use it, or can never control it? And when the frak would that ever happen, lol.
@Cmdr:
So if no one ever takes Sumatra, America can never use it, or can never control it? And when the frak would that ever happen, lol.
Not sure what you mean by “American can never use it”. America can still use it as a landing space or staging point once they’re at war. It’s an allied territory whose capital has been captured by an enemy, albeit prior to the start of game, and whose capital isn’t a victory city, but it still behaves towards Russia and the US in the established rule parameters. They just don’t have the UK/Dutch political exceptions apply to them.
