Table Tactics New Product Release

@reloader-1:

The best idea I’ve ever heard is to have building breakpoints:

i.e, once you build 8 light tanks, you can build med tanks
once you build 8 med tanks, you can build heavy tanks.

The only problem I see with that is if one nation, say Germany, builds a bunch of tanks, they could be up to heavies in just a couple of rounds yet another nation, say USA, can’t buy as many tanks because they also have to buy navy and air force to get across the ocean to take on Germany and they will be stuck with light tanks still.
Another idea would be to go by rounds.  After X number of rounds you can upgrade to medium, after Y rounds you can upgrade to heavy.  It seems to me like that would keep things a little better balanced.

The only problem I see with that is if one nation, say Germany, builds a bunch of tanks, they could be up to heavies in just a couple of rounds yet another nation, say USA, can’t buy as many tanks because they also have to buy navy and air force to get across the ocean to take on Germany and they will be stuck with light tanks still.
Another idea would be to go by rounds.  After X number of rounds you can upgrade to medium, after Y rounds you can upgrade to heavy.  It seems to me like that would keep things a little better balanced.

True, but perhaps this reflects reality.  Even if the US planners had put a rush on the Pershing, for instance, they were undoubtedly behind the Germans in the tank arms race… and the Japanese were still relying basically on light tanks late in the war after everyone else still “in the game” (Italy was out by then) had switched at least to mediums.  Why?  For the most part it was a matter of priorities.  Japan was concentrating on building super-battleships, Germany and the USSR on super-tanks and the US and the UK were split in their priorities.

Re: breakpoints

Each nation would have slightly different breakpoints. Japan’s might be as little as 4-5 tanks, while Germany’s could be 10 or so.

OK TT, here’s my first attempt at a proposal for which tanks you should do in a 5-tank series for each of the four countries that had a full range of options:

| Unit

Light Tank

Medium Tank

Medium Tank Dest./
SP Gun

Heavy Tank

Heavy Tank Dest./
SP Gun
| Germany

Panzer II

Panzer IV
or Panther

Nashorn
or JagdPanther

Tiger
or Tiger II

Elefant
or Jagdtiger
| USSR

BT

T34/76
or T34/85

SU-85
or SU-100

KV-1
or IS-2

KV-2
or ISU-152
| US

Stuart

Sherman
(late model)

M10 or
M18 Hellcat

Pershing

M36 TD or
M7 SP Gun
| UK

Crusader

Cromwell

Bishop

Comet

Achilles
|

@Table:

The bunkers are nice but tanks need to be bigger.  :-D

@Fishmoto37:

@Fishmoto37:

@DrLarsen:

Wow! I dug a couple of tanks from The War Game out of storage to compare and I found that the new TT pieces dwarf even them!  TT’s Panther is about the size of TWG’s Tiger!  TT’s Elephant is about the size of TWG’s Maus!  (interesting double irony there, I guess…)  Yeah, I have to say, TT: you’d best scale them down for AAA compatibility.

Yes I got my four sets of TT units yesterday and the tanks are quite large. For the most part not good for AA. Maybe can be used for BotB using ILs larger map. I made my first two bunkers out of the infantry pedestals. Cut the gun off the top and then drilled a small hole in the center of the portal that is located on the edge. Glued a portion of a gun in the drilled hole. Looks like one of those small bunkers on the Maginot line.

Check out my photo of bunker prototypes made from TT infantry units next to AA tanks.

I finally got my bunkers into a game setup. This is ILs 1939 game setup with bunkers made from TTs infantry pedestals. There are four in this photo. One in Gibralter, one on Malta, one in France and one in Germany.

I find it funny that you don’t use chips. It makes the map look small, but whatever you like is fine.

Reminds me of this guy on ebay who sells AA naval pieces. He does this same thing.

@Imperious:

I find it funny that you don’t use chips. It makes the map look small, but whatever you like is fine.

Reminds me of this guy on ebay who sells AA naval pieces. He does this same thing.

I will probably set it up in Europe with chips just before we start the game so it wont be so crowded. Thats what I did in our game last week which was A&AG1940. Europe is even smaller in that game.

DrLarsen, I agree with most of your choices.

I would suggest the T-26 as the Soviet light tank for two reasons: It was heavily produced in the early war years, and also very recognizable.

Secondly, the T-26 allows you to use it and the Panzer II in Spanish Civil War scenarios.

I think Jack should produce a Self-Propelled Artillery piece for all nations as well.

I see this as being one of the most popular pieces, and probably the next piece introduced in a future AA game.

Russia: Katyushas
Germany: Hummel
US: Priest

Etc.

I think this game miss a Heavy Artillery piece, that attacks on 4 or less, defend on 2 or less, and cost 7 IPC.

I also think we need a Blockhouse unit that defend on 5 or less and cost 6 IPC. As in the real world, a blockhouse will assure the destruction of one attacking unit. If you defend a territory with 4 infantry you are never sure they will kill any enemy before they are killed themselves.

DrLarsen, I agree with most of your choices.

I would suggest the T-26 as the Soviet light tank for two reasons: It was heavily produced in the early war years, and also very recognizable.

Secondly, the T-26 allows you to use it and the Panzer II in Spanish Civil War scenarios.

Then again, he’s already done a T-70; so maybe he should just go with that one (so many good choices made in large #'s for Soviet light tanks…)

I think Jack should produce a Self-Propelled Artillery piece for all nations as well.

I see this as being one of the most popular pieces, and probably the next piece introduced in a future AA game.

Russia: Katyushas
Germany: Hummel
US: Priest
Etc.

Notice that one of my US choices is the M7 (which is the same thing as the Priest)  The Nashorn is almost identical on this scale to the Hummel, so one designed as one could probably be used as either.  But you’re right that this is another potential unit type, and not just a type that is totally the same as a TD…  I shall think on it…

Would the Heavy Artillery have to be larger or just make a bigger dia barrel?

It would be different models altogether.  I would suggest Medium (regular) Artillery be drawn from the most commonly-used pieces for each nation ranging between 70mm-105mm and Heavy Artillery be from larger pieces (like the US 155mm or the Soviet 122mm)

You know if all this comes about then the maps will need to be ping pong table size and I will need to make those sticks they used to move pieces around.

Was that supposed to scare us off?  :-D  I already have such a map (from TWG) though I’d be in the market for a better one if I find it!  The sticks weren’t necessary… but they might still be a fun accessory…  :-D

Oh, TT, which model of Semovente is that in your Italian set?  I’m working over the suggestions table I put in above, adding Italy and Japan to it and substituting the ones you’ve already made on it to minimize the # of new scupts while maximizing the number of usable new unit types for each nation…

Which sculpts from the new table tactics models are in scale with axis and allies models.

Which sculpts from the new table tactics models are in scale with axis and allies models.

Unfortunately, imho, none of them right now.  However, he’s seriously contemplating making a major revision of his latest product to bring them more into scale, which is where we’re at with this thread right now.  He said it woudn’t be too hard for him to scale them down via his electronic modeling program, but he needs the capital to do more runs in the new scale… and while he checks into this, we’re giving him advice on how else to modify/ expand his list of scupts to do a more compatible and/or complete product line…

Did I summarize all this correctly, TT?

Ta-Da!  Here it is!  :-D  My new table of suggestions specifically designed to minimize the # of new sculpts for TT while maximizing the # of unit options for his customer base, and including Italy and Japan (which have no true “heavies” to speak of, but after a bit of digging I found an example of just about everything else in their potential line-up…)

| Unit

Light Tank
(5-15t)
Medium-Light
(15-20t)
Medium Tank
(18-32t)
Medium-Heavy
30-45t
Heavy Tank
(40+ tons)
Super-Heavy
(60+ tons)

Medium Tank Dest.

SP Gun

Heavy Tank Dest.
| Germany

Panzer II

Panzer IV

Panther

Tiger

Nashorn

Hummel*

Elefant
| USSR

T-70

T34

IS-2*

SU-85

Katyusha

ISU-152
| US

Stuart
M24

Sherman

Pershing

M18 Hellcat

M7 Priest

M36

| UK

Crusader

Sherman
Cromwell

Comet*

Achilles TD*

M7 Priest

| Japan

Kyu-Go

Chi-Ha

Chi-Nu*

Type 1 Ho-Ni*

Type 4 Ho-Ro
| Italy

CA L 6/40*

CA M 14/41

CA P 40*

Semovente 75/18

Semovente 90/53
|