Is AAP40 broken?

My battleship happened to survive, ya i know  :-o. Ever since the Japan player never let me keep the BB. Yup i scrambled, it was the only way the plan would work.

To be honest i think it depends entirely on the people who play it. An experienced AA player can easily fall in love with Japan’s setup and us its air force to its advantage. While new player would more than likely be cautious and explore possibilities with all that power. But to answer your question i say yes and no. Yes because if Japan is played right the entire Asian continent can be turned orange, while at the same time able to keep the US at bay. No because if mistakes are made Japan can be spread too thin and can be an easy target…The game i was referring to happened to take place within the first 2 weeks of its release, so different strategies were still on the board. Because of its set back in the D.E.I. Japan was never able to recover naval wise, the US navy was able to isolate Japan on its own island several turns later.

That’s a very interesting strategy that i have not come up against while playing as the allies. My counter strategy would be my normal one when playing as the US, “Cutting the head off the snake.” As the US player i always focus on Japan and sz 6. If such an incident would occur as you mentioned i would assume Japan would already be spread thin, unless they are already spending those 70ipcs. My strategy would be to lure the Japanese to attack me by threatening them with naval forces in the north Pacific.  Capturing Iwo Jima and building a air base their is my all time favorite. But to be honest i would not know how this would really work in your scenario.

For those of you who think the game is broken my buddies and I have developed two house rules that greatly change the way the game is played

1. the idea was taken from this forum and that is if Japan does a J1 attack to automatically give the US its 40ipcs.
What this does is it does not given Japan (what I call a J1 cushion). In a normal J1 attack Japan can do as it wishes without fear of a US navy attack for another one or two turns. By giving the US its 40ipcs right away the US can start construction on another naval task force. while rushing its starting navy out to sea.

2.The second rule is more like a National Advantage but it has changed Japan’s strategy in Mainland Asian in our games, and that rule is Chinese Partisans. The rule goes as such “Any territory with a Chinese symbol, even those under the starting control of Japan are subject to this rule. At the end of Japan’s income phase any Chinese territory that does not have at least one Japanese land or air unit in it is automatically given control to China, and 1 Chinese infantry is placed there.”…What this has done to our games has been pretty remarkable. instead of Blitzing all through china and leaving it empty the Japanese player is now subject to leave at least one unit behind! unless of course they don’t mind handing it over to the partisans, but anyways this offers some what of a cushion to British Mainland forces and helps keep Japan from over taking all of Asian within a matter of turns.

hmm now that i look at my board i notice they can. man that can come in handy, well like i said i would have to be put in that situation to see the outcome of my strategy. With the house i listed above the fall of Asia is usually delayed due to the partisan rule. but that still does not stop the fall of the D.E.I. or the blockades put against the U.K.

The counter to the Major Factory is to simply use the chain method with the US.  Your fleet, and fleet purchases simply move from LA, to Pearl, to SZ 54 or 63.  Then you snipe DEI islands when you can.  China and the UK do a massive push to hold the burma road open as long as possible, moving all UK units in that direction along with 4 mech inf purchase on turn 1.  If worred about a Jap airstrike against china’s starting force, simply put your UK planes with them which will result in japan loosing a ton of airpower.  That means at the end of allied turn 2 you have a stack of around 20 units on Yunnan, and china is building 2-4 inf a turn.  When needed this stack moves to Burma (chinamen too) to stall japan as long as possible.  ANZAC builds a combination of transports and subs, using them to harass the japan fleet by sniping islands and blockade raiding, or using DDs to block for the US fleet.  Using the major IC means it will take japan until turn 5, more likely 7 with china helping in burma, to take down India.  Until then, the allies have a significant IPC advantage, along with the US producing almost nothing but navy while japan is placing 10 ground units a turn.  Also, the US forces near ANZAC allow them to focus on annoying boats, instead of ground forces.  It can also be a good idea to take caroline islands, as a japan navy in SZ 37 happens to be out of range.  Basing from caroline islands allows the US fleet to threaten : Phil, 3 DEI islands, SZ 6(including the mainland japan and a korea factory threat), and Iwo, and Oki, along with the rest of the china coastline.  Typically Car can be taken the same turn Malaya is taken if the IJN use there entire fleet.

@calvinhobbesliker:

The person who came up with that says to put 4 ftrs and 4 tacs on truk so that the US has to bring enough power to attack those planes on both the zone and the island. He also implied that the Jap fleet can easily counterattack any DEI

If the US fleet is at Z54 on the 2nd turn, can’t Japan attack it if it unifies its fleet at Java or Phil? Then, you’d have to use the ANZAC DD as a block

Yes jap can counter attack DEI, thats why anzac does it unless US can hold it, simply to trade ANZAC units for Jap units.  Yes you use ANZAC to block, then to later remove the block, or simply station off of New Zealand.  There is an art to doing it to ensure it costs japan more than it costs you.  As far as Truk, if the US cannot figure out how to kill 8 planes they have a problem.  Assuming the US keeps its beginning fleet, minus the transport, within turn 4 the US should be able to take that without any scary casualties, remember you don’t have to build more carriers to use your starting planes, at least not more than 1.  The main point though, against that, is to simply build the US up while the rest of the allies whittle japan down a tad so that the US has naval superiority to take the DEI when japan takes india.  Japan putting 8 planes on Truk is a great thing for the allies, thats nearly 1/3rd of her airforce tied down doing nothing! When japan is spending 30+ IPCs a turn on the mainland, plus losing a destroyer or transport here and there from ANZAC, and china/UK have a 20-30 unit stack stalling them, its not impossible to do.  Japan starts with 1 more BB, 1 more Cru, 2 more AC, 3 more DD, and 1 more SS than the US.  Thats 20+12+32+24+6=94 IPCs more in boats than the US.  Also, keep in mind that ACs, BBs, and Crus lose dollar for dollar to subs and DDs, and it is not that large of a hurdle to overcome in 7 turns.  Now yes, it is true japan can just build carriers for her planes, it is also true that killing japans fleet does not win you the game in this situation, taking the DEI does.  Or taking Manchuria/Korea depending.

This strat by japan does not overly break the game, the India crush strat, depending on dice rolls, does.  And why would you put 4 figs, and 4 tacs on truk, 8 figs would give you more defense, just pair the tacs up on land with the tanks your building.

@bugoo:

China and the UK do a massive push to hold the burma road open as long as possible, moving all UK units in that direction along with 4 mech inf purchase on turn 1.  If worred about a Jap airstrike against china’s starting force, simply put your UK planes with them which will result in japan loosing a ton of airpower.

That’s your fatal flaw there. The key for Britian to survive until at least 8 or 9 is their airforce. If those planes come out to play, the Japanese player goes after them with everything. I mean it too. If those British planes go to China on turn one, every Japanese asset capable of reaching that zone will attack it. With the British planes gone, India can be taken via amphibious assault much faster than otherwise. The Japanese have the air assets to do this too. The Japanese can commit enough air to that fight to vaporize the entire Allied force in two rounds of combat. The Japanese can get 5 fighters, 5 dive bombers, 3 bombers, 2 infantry & 1 mech into that fight vs 6 or 7 (at best) Chinese troops, and the 5 British planes.

Round one would average 7/8 Japanese hits vs 4/5 for the allies. When it’s all said and done, it’s very likely that the Japanese will have only lost a number of a/c equal to that of the British, which is game, IMHO.

The Japanese are going to still be able to take the DEI on J2, Singapore on J3, build a major IC there on J4, place troops on J5, then assault India directly via amphibious assault on J6. At least two turns earlier than they would have otherwise.

@calvinhobbesliker:

But kauf, there can easily be 8 UK inf, 1 art from India and Malaya. Then it’s Allies: 15@2, 1@3, 5@4; Japan 3@1 5@3 8@4:

Allies get 9 hits, japan 8(by rounding). Allies left with 7 troops, 6 planes; Japan with 7 planes. They lose

In Yunnan on turn two? I think you’re forgetting that the Japanese move first.

The Japanese move first each turn, they’ll smash the Chinese and any British air before the British infantry would move on turn two.

Those British planes fly to Yunnan on turn one, and they are goners at the top of turn two, you can take that to the bank.

You’d have 4 British infantry in Burma and another 4 in Shan state, with Singapore wide open!

The British occupy Yunnan on turn two, and the Japanese take Singapore and quite possibly India at the top of turn three!

Not good for the Allies; bad for morale.

@bugoo:

If worred about a Jap airstrike against china’s starting force, simply put your UK planes with them which will result in japan loosing a ton of airpower.

This is what I was refering to. Unless I’ve read this wrong (and I do that  :oops: ), it sounds like this means to reinforce the Chinese who retake Yunnan on turn one with British air flown in on B1.

If the British pull their infantry out of Singapore on turn one and move it to Shan State, I as the Japanese player, would forgo taking one of the DEI islands on J2, maybe even two of them, in order to grab Singapore a full turn earlier. Then I build a major IC on turn three instead of on turn 4.

@calvinhobbesliker:

I think the stack occurs on turn 2. If the Japs take Singapore on the 2nd turn, they have to forego 1 DEI, losing 6 ipcs(9 for the DEI-3 Malaya). Then, China recaptures Yun with 2-3 inf, ftr, UK reinforces with 9 inf, art and planes ANZAC with 1 inf, and you have 13@2 1@3 4@4, vs  3@1 5@3 8@4 or 45 vs 50. However, the allies will be taken cheap and low-defense inf as hits while japan takes planes. In the 1st round, the allies will get 7 or 8 hits, the Japs 8. Let’s say the allies get 7. Japan loses its land units and 4 planes, allies lose 8 inf
now it’s 5@2 1@3 4@4 vs 3@3 6@4 or 29 vs 33. Let’s say allies get 5 hits, Japan 6, then allies lose 5 troops and a plane, japs lose 5 planes. Then it’s a ftr, 3 bmrs vs 4 ftrs. lets say all die. Japan has lost 13 planes, the allies 5. If the UK builds 4 mech turn 1, then that’s an additional 4@2 defendin Yunnan, meaning that the Brits will lose less planes

If the British want to move into Yunnan on turn two, why would I care as the Japanese? Let em have it on turn two. India is wide open at that point.

That British force is now two turns from anything of any value, most importantly, India. Especially if the British build 4 mech on turn one and move them to Yunnan as well.

The IJN can off shore shell maybe as many as 4 times, along with CV air (3) into India.

And if the Japanese take Burma, what 's the point in controlling Yunnan? Even if the Burma road is held, you’re strategy is to exchange Singapore & India so the Chinese can get two extra infantry a turn?

Churchill will shoot you himself. :-D

@calvinhobbesliker:

On the 2nd turn, your fleet in unified at Borneo, right?

Not if the British pull out of Singapore on B1. On J1, I have 2 x CVs in the PI, and 1 in Celebes (with fully loaded transport). All fully loaded with air. There is a good chance that between Japanese survivors in Hong Kong & the PI there will be enough troops to fill the two transports, not counting the two troops in Vietnam.

If the Brits pull out of Singapore and move to Shan State, I’d attack them with overwelming air in Shan State, 2 x infantry from Vietnam, maybe one transport load of men to get the BB off shore shots, and land the rest in Singapore. If the British have their planes with this group, it’s game over.

The Brits in Shan State will get chewed like an old bone, half of the British force will be gone, nothing left to counter attack Singapore, and Churchill will be requesting that the British Commander in this theater return to England immediately to face a military court marshall.

@calvinhobbesliker:

That can’t reach india. You may put them off Java, but then the DD or CC can block the route to Z39 and India

In order to keep the Japanese out of Singapore on J2, the British would have to block SZs 36, 43 & 42 with just two ships. The ANZAC DD cannot make it there before J2.

The Brit CA & DD may keep India safe on J3, but they will be toasted that turn and the road will be open by J4, which is crazy bad for the Allies to be in a position to possibly loose India at the top of turn 4.