What Fires First?

@Die:

I’m playing a game with some friends right now, and I have always played that you must declare all your invasions first before determining the outcome of any battle since it states in the rules that “all combat movement is considered to take place at the same time.” My friends on the Axis side aren’t convinced it means that you have to declare all invasions at once.

Another section in the rule book seems to make it clear to me that the way I have played is correct - “Combat in each space takes place at the same time, but each affected territory or sea zone is resolved separately and completely before resolving combat in the next contested space. The attacker decides the order of spaces in which each combat occurs.”

The rule seems clear to me that you can’t resolve one battle and then base your decision of where to invade next off of the outcome of that battle. But I realize that the rulebook doesn’t distinctly say “you must declare all invasions before resolving them” or something like that. I realize the last sentence in the above quote might cause confusion too.

So can anyone help me by elaborating a bit on this rule so it makes more sense? Or, if I’m wrong about it, tell me why?

Welcome to A&A.org.

I recently played two games of Spring '42 against my cousin.  On BOTH occasions, I captured UK on G2 and he conceded.  My cousin would be the first to admit that he is a lousy A&A player, but I still took a lot of joy out of silencing his trash talking, even if only for a moment.  It NEVER should have succeeded.  It was entirely due to poor decisions on his part.  Hobbes is absolutely correct.  The UK would have to make GRAVE miscalculations (purchasing and combat), and/or have absolutely horrendous luck with the dice.  Hobbes gave it in a nutshell.  Let me flesh it out a bit for G1 and G2.

Let’s give Germany the MAXIMUM possible force to bring in for a UK invasion on G1 or G2.

G1 assault on UK:  German 1 BOM, 2 FTR, 1 ARM, 1 INF versus UK 2 FTR, 1 ARM, 1 ART, 2 INF, 1 BOM, and the AA.  Germany has 4% chance to win with 1 ARM or better (in order to capture, the standard OOL is changed)

G2 assault on UK:  Let’s assume on R1, Russia went big into WR alone.  Germany has all 6 FTR’s intact.  On G1, Germany bought 1 CV, 3 TT, 1 ARM, and the SZ8 SS sank the SZ10 US fleet (50% chance).  On G2, Germany could bring as much as 1 BOM, 6 FTR, 5 ARM, 5 INF, 1 BB bombardment shot (though the BB would be better used in SZ 9 to interdict/divert the new US1-built fleet hoping to liberate UK on US2.  Let’s keep the BB bombarding UK, however, just to give the best possible odds for the Germans in the invasion of UK. With the sz10 fleet eliminated, the G1 naval purchases are placed in the Baltic rather than the Med.  The UK player has to see the threat of a G2 invasion bearing down on them.  The UK player, not being COMPLETELY inept, decides to shore up UK.  UK purchases 5 INF 3 ARM, the SZ1 TT brought the ECan ARM over to UK.  The BB stays put in SZ2 as Germany’s 3 SS, 1 DD, 1 CV have a 98.5% chance of wiping out the BB without needing to divert any air units from the invasion.  Germany has 1 BOM, 6 FTR, 5 ARM, 5 INF, and the BB bombardment bearing down on UK, who stands with 7 INF, 1 ART, 5 ARM, 3 FTR, 2 BOM (1 FTR 1 BOM from EUS), 1 AA.  Germany’s odds of capturing UK under this optimal condition would still be only 24.5%, and the US would be able to liberate on US2.  If Germany parks the BB in sz9 to interdict/divert the US, a liberation by the US would be impossible, but the German odds of success at UK drop to 19% without having the bombardment.

Clearly, a G1 attempt is suicide.  Assuming the G1 attack succeeded against the SZ10 fleet (50% chance of success) followed by a best case scenario G2 attempt after a G1 build of 1 CV, 3 TT, 1 ARM (19% chance of success while preventing liberation by US).  By compounding the probabilities, your chance of a G2 assault of this sort succeeding is less than 10%.  If Germany is missing a single FTR from their original 6, the odds are cut in half again.

IF you are playing against a lousy UK player, you might have better luck forgoing the naval build on G1 altogether.  Germany can opt to smash the sz2 fleet, and hope the UK will turn around and buy 1 CV, 2 DD (or a similar navy heavy buy) and ignore the Baltic fleet on UK1 (2 big IF’s), allowing Germany to invade UK with 1 BB shot, 2 loaded transports, 6 FTR, and 1 BOM on G2.  83% chance of success without US units on UK.  Long story short, unless you are playing inept opponent(s), a G1 or G2 invasion of UK is a suicide mission.

got the rulebook, just realized, that I didn’t read it exactly enough, because I thought then I’d know the rules more or less.
It was exactly enough to play and to have most of the rules right, but I missed two or three things :roll:, well, now it should be better

Yes, the AA50 sub rules are a bit muddled, but the FAQ helps immensely.

There are no official rules on undoing a mistake, so you’ll have to work that out with your opponent.  However, many on-line clubs have procedures for such situations.  Maybe one of their members will suggest something here.

By the way, this is the AA42 forum, so questions about AA50 are off-topic here.  Please post further AA50 questions in the appropriate forum.  Thanks.

Building AC + 2 destroyers in SZ8 landing 2 US fighters and adding the US cruiser is usually a nice option if Germany attacked SZ2 and killed the battleship (if not, just building what you would need to survive an air+sub attack and build transports if you have money left. Depending on the German odds of attack on SZ8 you bring or not the US transports, and you may sent the UK transports on Washington’s coast not to lose extra units without reason against likely German attack.  Even if Germany as better odds to win on SZ8 (depending on how many planes survived/were built), this strat is nice to lure Germany forces away from Russia and you should always be willing early to trade more UK IPC for a bit less Germany IPC (their “real” value is not the same since Russia/Germany front is ALWAYS the most important front). Also, if Germany had a very good turn 1 and kept all planes, you should be willing to take some risks to try to take the advantage out of axis’ hands.

Also it depends on how Germany places is units, if all planes are in Paris, you can build in SZ2 for exemple.

Thanks guys, its a lot clearer now.

:-D

Let me know how it turns out.  I’m interested to see how the strategy played out, unfortunately, I haven’t been able to use it like I wanted to.  I have played one game for the last three days and boy was it horrible luck.  Not only was I doing that one little mistake that you don’t notice until its the end of your turn and its too late, but I was rolling 5’s, 6’s, and other numbers that you didn’t want (like rolling 4’s when using tanks) all day long.  Seriously, I lost a defensive battle as the Russians when my little bro attacked from Manchuria with an infantry a tank and a fighter.  I lost all 6 of my Infantry for only his fighter and Infantry after he attacked three times.  Later on in the same game I sent 3 bombers and 2 fighters from Britain to attack his 8 tanks he had in Eastern Europe.  I know it was probably going to be a suicide move, but I was trying to relieve Russia.  Before anyone asks, my 2 fighters were going to land in Byelorussia.  End result after attacking 3 times, I lost all of my fighters for only 2 of his tanks.  Worst three days of my A&A 42 experience.

nice game.

had my first game of 42, was the axis.  Did the Bomber buy 1st round, scared the UK with the new sub rules as the baltic fleet moved into the Atlantic.  Scared the US away till turn 3 from landing in Africa and was able to combine on turn 2.  Pulled back Japan’s navy, killed the Indian fleet, then turned back on the US Fleet.  On turn 4 I was able to destroy both US fleets in the Pacific and Atlantic and took Australia.  A few Allied troops in Africa and had left India’s IC alone except for buffering around it.  Turned on Russia through China and after suckering the allies into throwing everything at Caucaus after i left most of the German army out to dry there, 2 Jap tanks were able to blitz from Sinkiang to take Moscow.  Allies gave up as the Axis ruled all but the North Sea.  Not too wacky of dice, save the loss of my German SBR bombers over Moscow.  
 I haven’t played AA50 much, but I am lovin’ the naval rules applied here!

gotta admit too that those new Russian ship sculpts are absolutely beautiful…sitting in the box never being used.