OK IL, thanks for the updated setup. I found quite a few errors and changed them. I have one question. Your setup lists the German navy in the Black Sea. Did you intend for these to be placed in the Baltic Sea instead? The ships will not be able to leave the Black Sea unless Germany takes Turkey. Thanks for your help.
On the Pacific side of our 1939 game, Japan moved all its fleet south and then on Japan#2 took India and Borneo. Now without oil the U.K. on its 2nd move rolled one die for the oil loss. It was four IPCs. We were not sure if we were supposed to do the oil loss roll then or do it on the next U.K. turn. As you can see in the photo I moved the U.S. fleet towards Japan just to give them something to worry about. Because of this Japanese action the U.S. is now at war with all the axis. We moved the U.S.income up two turns so that it is now 25IPCs. Not sure yet if its supposed to be 25 or 30 IPCs. I was hoping that IL could answer some of these questions.
On the Pacific side of our 1939 game, Japan moved all its fleet south and then on Japan#2 took India and Borneo. Now without oil the U.K. on its 2nd move rolled one die for the oil loss. It was four IPCs. We were not sure if we were supposed to do the oil loss roll then or do it on the next U.K. turn. As you can see in the photo I moved the U.S. fleet towards Japan just to give them something to worry about. Because of this Japanese action the U.S. is now at war with all the axis. We moved the U.S.income up two turns so that it is now 25IPCs. Not sure yet if its supposed to be 25 or 30 IPCs. I was hoping that IL could answer some of these questions.
OK, The turn where you begin with no oil center under your control, causes an oil loss of one D6 each turn. The income you collect from the previous turn is not effected, but future turns it is.
Japan has a 3 turn reserve of oil. ON turn 4 she must attack at least one oil or face an oil loss roll.
Usually UK takes Persia, which has oil, or Saudi Arabia. They do this right before they feel the japanese will attack. Historically UK did attack Persia and was allies with Saudi Arabia.
Remember attacking these for the first time gets the conqueror a oil roll to boost income for that one turn. If the axis take it they too get to roll one time, one roll for each IPC.
Also, the US income if fixed as per the rules. Japan can attack early, but she will lose because she cant get enough done in China without a bigger commitment. China will be very hard to defeat, unless Japan spends 2-3 turns just fighting them.
If you attack early the US income schedule is boosted by two turns, so you played it right.
In Europe, note the following:
By attacking Holland and not France on the first turn, Italy is technically still neutral unless they attacked UK or France as well.
If you take out Holland you should also kill Poland and Norway. The next turn France will fall. if it didn’t the attacks were not done correctly.
France on her turn has the option of extending the Maginot line to the channel for another 8 IPC build. You probably want to do this and cost the Germans more loses.
Also, Spain cant just go axis. see rules below:
Neutrals:
Spain, Sweden, and the Soviet Union until at war all contribute 1 IPC each (3 total) to the German treasury starting on turn 1, as long as they remain neutral. German air units may fly over Sweden, Spain, Chile and Argentina as well as the Minor Axis Allies even while neutral. German land units can move into all the minor axis neutrals and this is the only exception.
The Dutch are pro-allied but start the game neutral until attacked. Allied air units may fly over their territories. Venezuela, Brazil, Saudi Arabia are considered pro-allied. Air units may fly over. Attacks on any neutral immediately make them become allies of the other side. The only way to collect their income is by conquest and occupation. IPC are only awarded to the side that has invaded and defeated them rather than being an ‘ally’. But the exception again is the four German minor allies. Belligerent neutrals cannot leave their home nation nor attack out of it. All they can do is defend home territories, with the exceptions of: Spain, Turkey, Brazil, and Argentina.
I also notice that because you want to India, now you got a large US fleet causing problems. I see Japan as kinda busted.
I was hoping you tried to play that attack early, because the modeling of the design will make you pay dearly for it. The economics of not getting properly established as Japan in China will cause her defeat.
Also if you got any questions ask away.
@Imperious:
Also if you got any questions ask away.
OK IL, your updated setup lists Spain as pro-axis. What exactly does that mean? Must the pro-axis and the pro-allied be invaded like the true neutrals? How are they different from true neutrals?
@Imperious:
I also notice that because you want to India, now you got a large US fleet causing problems. I see Japan as kinda busted.
I was hoping you tried to play that attack early, because the modeling of the design will make you pay dearly for it. The economics of not getting properly established as Japan in China will cause her defeat.
The Japanese fleet at India drove my U.K. fleet out of the Indian ocean. So I moved my U.S. fleet toward Japan just to mess with them in hopes they would leave the Indian ocean and then I could move the U.K. fleet back and take the oil in Persia.
OK IL, your updated setup lists Spain as pro-axis. What exactly does that mean? Must the pro-axis and the pro-allied be invaded like the true neutrals? How are they different from true neutrals?
Neutrals:
Spain, Sweden, and the Soviet Union until at war all contribute 1 IPC each (3 total) to the German treasury starting on turn 1, as long as they remain neutral. German air units may fly over Sweden, Spain, Chile and Argentina as well as the Minor Axis Allies even while neutral. German land units can move into all the minor axis neutrals and this is the only exception.
The Dutch are pro-allied but start the game neutral until attacked. Allied air units may fly over their territories. Venezuela, Brazil, Saudi Arabia are considered pro-allied. Air units may fly over. Attacks on any neutral immediately make them become allies of the other side. The only way to collect their income is by conquest and occupation. IPC are only awarded to the side that has invaded and defeated them rather than being an ‘ally’. But the exception again is the four German minor allies. Belligerent neutrals cannot leave their home nation nor attack out of it. All they can do is defend home territories, with the exceptions of: Spain, Turkey, Brazil, and Argentina.
While pro neutral you can fly over them. Thats it. In the case of Spain and Sweden Germany collects 1 IPC.
You can’t use their armies unless the allies attack them. Of course you can attack them and take all their money.
German Minor Allies are different: on turn 3 they are activated and at war with Russia and Germany collects their income and can use their forces as they like.
Germany can build factories as well and place German units.
@Imperious:
OK IL, your updated setup lists Spain as pro-axis. What exactly does that mean? Must the pro-axis and the pro-allied be invaded like the true neutrals? How are they different from true neutrals?
Neutrals:
Spain, Sweden, and the Soviet Union until at war all contribute 1 IPC each (3 total) to the German treasury starting on turn 1, as long as they remain neutral. German air units may fly over Sweden, Spain, Chile and Argentina as well as the Minor Axis Allies even while neutral. German land units can move into all the minor axis neutrals and this is the only exception.
The Dutch are pro-allied but start the game neutral until attacked. Allied air units may fly over their territories. Venezuela, Brazil, Saudi Arabia are considered pro-allied. Air units may fly over. Attacks on any neutral immediately make them become allies of the other side. The only way to collect their income is by conquest and occupation. IPC are only awarded to the side that has invaded and defeated them rather than being an ‘ally’. But the exception again is the four German minor allies. Belligerent neutrals cannot leave their home nation nor attack out of it. All they can do is defend home territories, with the exceptions of: Spain, Turkey, Brazil, and Argentina.While pro neutral you can fly over them. Thats it. In the case of Spain and Sweden Germany collects 1 IPC.
You can’t use their armies unless the allies attack them. Of course you can attack them and take all their money.
German Minor Allies are different: on turn 3 they are activated and at war with Russia and Germany collects their income and can use their forces as they like.
Germany can build factories as well and place German units.
OK thanks for the info.
IL, the biggest problem that we found so far with your game is the fortress in France. The only way to attack France is through the low countries. This splits the German force into two parts. Because of all French ground units defending at three at the eastern border it becomes impossible for Germany to attack from both directions at the same time. The German losses would be unacceptable. The fortress rules are too much. Of course this is true on any border where a fort is placed. So it appears the fort rules need to be reworked. I will post more on this at a later date.
IL, the biggest problem that we found so far with your game is the fortress in France. The only way to attack France is through the low countries. This splits the German force into two parts. Because of all French ground units defending at three at the eastern border it becomes impossible for Germany to attack from both directions at the same time. The German losses would be unacceptable. The fortress rules are too much. Of course this is true on any border where a fort is placed. So it appears the fort rules need to be reworked. I will post more on this at a later date.
ONLY the infantry and artillery are at 3. What are you doing on the attack? It should be a 2 round battle and easy.
Turn 1 attack:
Germany has:
10 Inf, 2 Art, 2 Mech Inf., 5 Tanks, 3 Fighters, 2 Tactical Bomber, 2 Bombers= 26 units and 54 points ( each combat loss is losing a 1)
vs.
France has:
6 Inf, 2 Art, 3 Tanks, 2 Fighters= 13 units and 47 points ( with bonus, except each combat loss is losing a 3)
Low Luck:
Slight German edge on round 1, and huge German edge on round 2.
France will lose 9 units, which is 27 points leaving 20
Germany will lose 7-8 units leaving 46
46 to 20 is an easy win.
Turn 2 attack:
Germany has about 30 IPC and 10 land units and France just has 17 IPC and can’t build more than say 5 more units.
Germany is gaining. Remember France does not have a AA gun. I hope your not adding one right?
@Imperious:
IL, the biggest problem that we found so far with your game is the fortress in France. The only way to attack France is through the low countries. This splits the German force into two parts. Because of all French ground units defending at three at the eastern border it becomes impossible for Germany to attack from both directions at the same time. The German losses would be unacceptable. The fortress rules are too much. Of course this is true on any border where a fort is placed. So it appears the fort rules need to be reworked. I will post more on this at a later date.
ONLY the infantry and artillery are at 3. What are you doing on the attack? It should be a 2 round battle and easy.
Turn 1 attack:
Germany has:
10 Inf, 2 Art, 2 Mech Inf., 5 Tanks, 3 Fighters, 2 Tactical Bomber, 2 Bombers= 26 units and 54 points ( each combat loss is losing a 1)
vs.
France has:
6 Inf, 2 Art, 3 Tanks, 2 Fighters= 13 units and 47 points ( with bonus, except each combat loss is losing a 3)Low Luck:
Slight German edge on round 1, and huge German edge on round 2.France will lose 9 units, which is 27 points leaving 20
Germany will lose 7-8 units leaving 4646 to 20 is an easy win.
Turn 2 attack:
Germany has about 30 IPC and 10 land units and France just has 17 IPC and can’t build more than say 5 more units.
Germany is gaining. Remember France does not have a AA gun. I hope your not adding one right?
Germany takes Holland, Poland and others round one. Now they are faced with the decision of how many units to garrison Holland with and how many to leave in Germany. France is strong enough to retake Holland on F1 unless enough German infantry is left there to discourage them. France can place two infantry and one tank on their purchase turn. (12 IPCs) So on G2 France has 8 inf, 2 art, 4 tanks all defending at three plus 2 fighters defending at four. If France took Holland on F1 then there will be less. But now Germany is back to square one. They cannot swing their mobile units around through Holland. Looks like the only option for Germany is to attack France right through the fort on G1 with everything they have and then move to Poland and the others on G2. All land units behind a fort defending at three is too strong.
Germany takes Holland, Poland and others round one. Now they are faced with the decision of how many units to garrison Holland with and how many to leave in Germany. France is strong enough to retake Holland on F1 unless enough German infantry is left there to discourage them. France can place two infantry and one tank on their purchase turn. (12 IPCs) So on G2 France has 8 inf, 2 art, 4 tanks all defending at three plus 2 fighters defending at four. If France took Holland on F1 then there will be less. But now Germany is back to square one. They cannot swing their mobile units around through Holland. Looks like the only option for Germany is to attack France right through the fort on G1 with everything they have and then move to Poland and the others on G2. All land units behind a fort defending at three is too strong.
Use all the one move units in Prussia and Slovakia for Poland, plus air and a few tanks
Use all infantry in Germany against Holland and everything else
Use 2 infantry with bomber in Norway ( paratroopers) and perhaps land some men to use the SB’s
You should have your builds plus everything in Holland and all the two move units in range and all air to attack France from two directions.
You got more than enough. I think you sent too many infantry against Poland and you probably used the ones in Germany, which is not good.
The benefits of a attack on france on G2:
Italy is still neutral on I1, you should attack Yugoslavia. You can do this without any issues
Also, you might have enough for Greece.
IL, we have started a new game using your 1939 map. I have a question about the German war economy. When the four axis minor allies join Germany on turn three the Germs economy goes up 10 IPCs for the value of those territories. Your rules state that on turn four the Germs economy goes up another 10 IPCs. Did you intend for this 20 IPC increase over two turns or have I misunderstood something?
IL, we have started a new game using your 1939 map. I have a question about the German war economy. When the four axis minor allies join Germany on turn three the Germs economy goes up 10 IPCs for the value of those territories. Your rules state that on turn four the Germs economy goes up another 10 IPCs. Did you intend for this 20 IPC increase over two turns or have I misunderstood something?
Yes it goes up by 10, Yes again it increases by another 10 “total war” and full wartime mobilization has occurred, much like USA how it goes up. So Germany goes up by a total of 20 by turn 4.
Also, it can place 10 IPC worth of product in these four minor axis allies even if they have no factory. All in one or spread around. Or it can build a factory and do even more.
So what did you do on that french attack? Did you figure it out that is was really a two round war?
@Imperious:
IL, we have started a new game using your 1939 map. I have a question about the German war economy. When the four axis minor allies join Germany on turn three the Germs economy goes up 10 IPCs for the value of those territories. Your rules state that on turn four the Germs economy goes up another 10 IPCs. Did you intend for this 20 IPC increase over two turns or have I misunderstood something?
Yes it goes up by 10, Yes again it increases by another 10 “total war” and full wartime mobilization has occurred, much like USA how it goes up. So Germany goes up by a total of 20 by turn 4.
Also, it can place 10 IPC worth of product in these four minor axis allies even if they have no factory. All in one or spread around. Or it can build a factory and do even more.
So what did you do on that french attack? Did you figure it out that is was really a two round war?
I know that you probably do not want to hear this but we changed the fort rules. We decided that all ground units defending at three behind a fort was just too strong. Sorry!
I have to agree, we changed the fort rule to first round only.
Ok so in both cases the thing is for one round?
If that is the case the cost must be changed:
pay 2 IPC fixed cost and 1 IPC for each adjacent territory or sea zone.
so if you want a fort in an area adjacent to 6 areas, the cost is 8 IPC
Small islands inside a sea zone are 3.
@Imperious:
Ok so in both cases the thing is for one round?
If that is the case the cost must be changed:
pay 2 IPC fixed cost and 1 IPC for each adjacent territory or sea zone.
so if you want a fort in an area adjacent to 6 areas, the cost is 8 IPC
Small islands inside a sea zone are 3.
Yes, I like that.
@coachofmany:
I have to agree, we changed the fort rule to first round only.
@coachofmany:
@Imperious:
Ok so in both cases the thing is for one round?
If that is the case the cost must be changed:
pay 2 IPC fixed cost and 1 IPC for each adjacent territory or sea zone.
so if you want a fort in an area adjacent to 6 areas, the cost is 8 IPC
Small islands inside a sea zone are 3.
Yes, I like that.
Good to see that someone agrees with me that ILs forts need to be changed. One round looks like a possible solution. But our first effort at change is a complete rework. What we are using now is basicly a fortified long range artillary piece. Cost is six IPCs with a limit of two per land territory. Each fort defends one border. It will preempt an attack by firing two shots. Two dice at four or less. Attacker chooses casualties and they have no return fire. If additional rounds of combat are required then the fort fires at the start of each round. Yes it is possible that both defender and attacker can have a fort on the same border. They both work the same. If the defender loses all other supporting units then the fort must surrender and is captured UNLESS the defender has a combat engineer. The combat engineer may roll one die and fort is destroyed on a two or less. There are other ways the fort may be destroyed but I will not go into that now. If a fort is placed on a sea coast border then it will also preempt an amphipious landing by firing three shots at the landing force. Three dice hitting on a four or less. Attacker choosing his own casualties. We thought about the defender targeting certain units but we have not tried that yet. Fort fires at the start of each combat round and destroyed units do not return fire. OK, I am ready to here some feedback.
bumper.
