Well, the real problem was when the Germans switched from bombing the British airfields to terror bombing. If they had continued to attack the Airfields, they would of utterly destroyed the RAF in just a few more weeks.
they always talk about how the brits were producing spitfires so much faster than the germans were building the ME’s. i don’t get that. wasn’t german production better than british production? germany wasn’t using all of their production capabilities on stuff to attack russia, beacuse they wern’t at war w/ them yet, and they wouldn’t be for about a year. plus wasn’t england forced to fund the aussies and the indians war effort in the pacific?
I don’t have the numbers or sources, but I believe England was out-producing Germany in fighters at the time.
Had there now been a war in Russia, Germany probably would of been able to take and hold Egypt, and the entire Med. Sea.
I assume you meant “NOT” instead of “NOW.” And I agree, Uk would’ve lost the war without Russia or USA. However, the questions, “Would Sealion be Successful” did not take this in account [The Red Army entering the War]. Also, it is impossible to determine the amount of help US would’ve gave to UK if Geramny did not attack USSR first. Already, Hitler was infuriated with the violation of US neutrality during 1941.
In conjunction with aircraft, the U-boats should be taking out all shipping and if there were any captial ships around, hit 'em with torpedoes and bombs.
If memory serves me correct, U-Boats did not preform very well against Capital Ships or escort ships. Also the Luftwaffe lacked proper bombers for such an engagement.
Well, the ASDIC was countered by the wolfpacks, the convoys got beatne by them….
until:
the brits conquered an ENigma machine…
that was the decisive thing…
The Enigma machine was a great tool to be used by the British… but it wasn’t as important as people have made it out to be. :-?
Also the concept of wolfpacks was greatly extravagated. The overwhelming majority of U-Boat encounters were ship-to-ship. At most you might see U-Baots travel in pairs, though huge full scale attacks with wolfpacks were rare.
I don’t have the numbers or sources, but I believe England was out-producing Germany in fighters at the time.
The question is not so much production rates but number of available pilots. That is your answer.
TG is somewhat right. The RCAF was deploying in the British isles while hte RCN was hunting u-boats and sending convoys. A cosntant supply could have helepd the British. Don’t forget that the British spitfires were better than almost every German plane available and the British invention of radar proved very useful in thwarting the Luftwaffe. The Kriegsmarine was inferior to the Royal Navy throughout the war.
The main issue I have with the Me-109 is the fact that due to it’s limited fuel capacity, it’s ability to project power over England was very limited. Also Germany lacked the proper bombers… using the Stuka as a bomber was not very effective…
TG is somewhat right. The RCAF was deploying in the British isles while hte RCN was hunting u-boats and sending convoys. A cosntant supply could have helepd the British. Don’t forget that the British spitfires were better than almost every German plane available and the British invention of radar proved very useful in thwarting the Luftwaffe. The Kriegsmarine was inferior to the Royal Navy throughout the war.
Good point. The British included the Commonwealth which by extension included a growing industrialized nation across the ocean. By the end of the Second World War the Royal Canadian Air Force had become the world’s third most powerful air force. Over 100 Canadian pilots flew on fighter operations during the Battle of Britain. Another 200 fought with the RAF’s Bomber and Coastal Commands. Joining the British and Canadians, were pilots from Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, from Czechoslovakia, France and Poland, and from the United States.
The British Commonwealth Air Training Plan (BCATP) was the RCAF’s paramount undertaking on the home front in World War II. Without substantial numbers of available, trained aircrew and groundcrew, the Allies could not have wielded the massive air power they did in the successful struggle to defeat the enemy.
The BCATP’s purpose was to produce a large, steady output of aircrew for the war in Europe. The Plan trained 131,553 aircrew for the Commonwealth and Allied Air Forces. Of these, 72,835 were RCAF pilots, navigators, air bombers, air gunners, flight engineers and wireless operator/air gunners. This airfield (Mount Hope) served at one time as an Elementary Flying Training School.
The BCATP was largely a Canadian training program, much of it run out of my home province of Manitoba.
http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/RollofHonour/TrainingCourses/BCATP_index.html
I believe that this program might well have provided a steady supply of pilots as the Commonwealth provided aircraft (Canadian factories provided aircraft to both its own air force as well as the UK’s, as well they provided for the American war effort as well).
correct, main reason why Britian RAF was able to hold out so long as it was, was not from the Spitfire, but from a steady stream of pilots - many coming from the commonwealth and the conquered nations.
Moses is right about the pilot thing. DUring the battle of Britian Britian was losing pilots fast, if Germany had continued attacking airfields the RAF would have been crippled.
@TG:
Also Germany lacked the proper bombers… using the Stuka as a bomber was not very effective…
I don’t think they used a lot of Sutkas in the Battle over Britain. AFAIR the main bomber used by the germans was the He111, but even that can be considered being a “light” and underarmed bomber compared to the flying fortresses and the like the allied used in the germans sky later in the war.
i think the germans developed a heavier bomber later in the war, i think it was the ME110 but i’m not sure
The Me110 was a night-fighter and a longer range fighter, not a bomber.
There was one 4 engine “bomber”, very long range, but that was used only for recon, supporting the subs in finding their prey: the FW 200 Condor
For more information, also see:
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/index.html
The Germans didn’t have a Jet-bomber because by the time it was developed, the end of the war, the Germans did not have the pilots nor the planes to do any significant strategic bombing. So, Hitler ordered all Jet engines be used for fighter developement.
just think about how the battle of britain would have turned out if the germans could have developed jet engine fighters and bombers just a few years earlier…
I don’t think they used a lot of Sutkas in the Battle over Britain. AFAIR the main bomber used by the germans was the He111, but even that can be considered being a “light” and underarmed bomber compared to the flying fortresses and the like the allied used in the germans sky later in the war.
As many as 500 Stukas a day were sent in the Battle of Britain (mainly during Phase I: 12 August - 18 August 1940), by August 17, more than 30% of the Ju-87 Stukas sent against England did not return. The He111 was indeed the majority bomber used by the Germans since they lacked any better ones. Due to the limited range of the Me-109, the the Bf-110 Zerörsters were mainly used as escorts, but not only could not defend the bombers, they needed fighter escorts themselves.
There was one 4 engine “bomber”, very long range, but that was used only for recon, supporting the subs in finding their prey: the FW 200 Condor
Correct, though the Condor was more of a commerical transport. Good at first due to its range and bomb holding, but poorly defended against air attack. :-?
The Germans developed a true jet bomber before the war - Arado 234 - and it saw service as a bomber/recon.
one reason why the Brits were out Producing the Germans in Air Planes was because Germany did not have a war time economy untill after Stalin Grad. Hitler thought all of the wars would be over and done with and did not think he would have to go into that type of production. and look were that thought got him lol ;) :(
The Germans didn’t have a Jet-bomber because by the time it was developed, the end of the war, the Germans did not have the pilots nor the planes to do any significant strategic bombing. So, Hitler ordered all Jet engines be used for fighter developement.
Ahm, teh germans still were the first having a jet bomber :)
look it up at that link i posted above
So, sending Stukas in was quite a stupid move. Everybody with one eye left could have seen that they are planes for supporting ground attacks, but not strategical bombers. The He111 was not so bad, just slightly out of date. The Ju88 should have done about as good.
The esocrt fighters were a problem though, that could have been solved by sending in not 500 Ju87 but putting these pilots into anything fighterlike (Me110, Me109) and try to win “by numbers”…… once the first airfields and radars are gone, the bombing raids would become less and less dependant on fighter escorts…
But that is just my 0.02 €…
