Prime Factor

“sometimes you did, sometimes you didn’t. Therefor i have to assume that you have opinions of your own, made up by your own thinking.
That excludes you from most of my prejudices”

Yay?

“But, just for the double standrards, you talk of “europeans”, “european leftists” etc etc. in pretty much the same way, and never having visited europe, all your judgement is nothing but a prejudice itself.”

I talk of European leftist, because they happen to come up. I know there are conservatives, like the conservative movements in Great Britian and France. You know about party lines…well, many liberals strive to follow many “Leftist European” party lines when it comes downto a stance on the “War on Terror”, Israel, or Social programs. I have read up on a bunch of European websites, and watched BBC news, and I see how their media backs up the same ideology. It does nothing with the European people intheir entirity, but those who happen to be leftist. If I have said “European” without saying leftist when addressing them I apologize…It is just that every European I have talked to (even friends from my school) overal support the same party line issues.

“And in europe the liberals are not following the the leftists ideas, but the ideas of total economic dictatorship over everything in life and society. That’s not a part of european culture, still they want to implement it, and are far too successful for my concern.”

Are you talking of Socialism? If so I disagree in some parts.

"Economy is for the ppl, not ppl are for the econmy. The old paradigm that was the other way round has to change. The tyranny of economy has to stop! "

I totally agree. Beuracracies raise taxes “to help the people” but in reality they are only keeping themselves in existance, their own self perpetuatuion. Sadly, we need governments because we are too dumb to be decent in our own right.

“The last is something i can only agree wholeheartedly (the second time i guess ) … and of course i call for the end of double standards against europeans!”

Ok, but why is it that it seems to be more socially acceptable to “be man to America”?

@HortenFlyingWing:

(snip)
Are you talking of Socialism? If so I disagree in some parts.

"Economy is for the ppl, not ppl are for the econmy. The old paradigm that was the other way round has to change. The tyranny of economy has to stop! "

I totally agree. Beuracracies raise taxes “to help the people” but in reality they are only keeping themselves in existance, their own self perpetuatuion. Sadly, we need governments because we are too dumb to be decent in our own right.

I was not talking of socialism, i just hate the dictate of the econmy. Seems like you can justify anything when it “helps the economy”. Even racism, cutting down freedom (and that from a european leftist!! :) ) etc seem acceptable if you can pretend to create more jobs but in fact only increase the revenue and interest.

“The last is something i can only agree wholeheartedly (the second time i guess ) …. and of course i call for the end of double standards against europeans!”

Ok, but why is it that it seems to be more socially acceptable to “be man to America”?

Because you are the superpower. You are the leaders. A leader has to be told which way to go by his minions (at least in a democracy). :)

I think the long history of europe, its lack of “endless lands” to be colonized and acting as a refuge for freedom-seekers, make the difference between your (or better the typical US opinion) “everyone can make it to the top with hard work”. We have a long history of kings and other injustice. If someone makes it to the top, he most probably screwed a lot of other ppl or let himself be screwed by ppl above him to get higher. The ones at the top deserve more suspicioun (sp?) than respect.
And at the moment, the US are at the top.
(plus: you are country founded by religious weirdos (in european terms), otherwise not so much would have emigrated: a point that comes out clearly in other threads)

Take those quotes with a grain of salt - I’m a US Navy Veteran, patriot, and oh yes, an atheist. Hey, if you can’t find a deity to give your allegience to, believe in your country. You’ve all pointed out the faults in the US and other countries, help make the future better for our children…

“everyone can make it to the top with hard work”.

not everyone screws someone for money my friend! Not saying my father was never screwed by others, but he made himself what he is with a lot of hard work and some help from very friendly people. You seem to think that “if someone has money, he must of stepped on a lot of people’s backs in the diamond mines”, but this isn’t true.

America has more economic oppurtunity because they have more money. If America becomes Somalia, then that isn’t going to happen.

"No, I don’t know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.”

George H.W. Bush, as Presidential Nominee for the Republican party; 1987-AUG-27:

I can only assume (as a patriot and a citizen):

1. Bush is a damned fool for saying that (and you can quote me on that)
2. He doesn’t exactly understand the meaning of 1st Amendment
3. Both

“…once a person admits to not believing in God, this raises the question of whether or not that person believes in America…”

Chief spokesman for National office of the Boy Scouts (And all the other Boy Scout Quotes)

I can only assume (As a former Boy Scout)

1. That Chief is a damned fool for saying that (and you can quote me on that)
2. I have friends who use to be in the Boy Scouts that freely admit to being Atheists (even came close to converting me)
3. He doesn’t exactly understand the meaning of the 1st Amendment
4. He assumes all Atheist are probably Russian Commies runnin’ about and causing all sorts of havok.

“And Jesus siad, render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s.”
“Pay no attention to Caesar. Caesar doesn’t have the slightest idea what’s really going on.” - Bokonon

Don’t take what these people say as a representation of what American’s think! Just overly-religious morons!

most americans believe in god, but by no means does it govern their lives…they do get offended easily!

The worst one i heard was “God loves America the most…”

“God loves America the most”

I think that is more than worrying….

Perhaps I’m a little too innocent, but I find that quote quite hilarious. If it wasn’t created by someone with a sense of humor then I would very worried.

@bossk:

Perhaps I’m a little too innocent, but I find that quote quite hilarious. If it wasn’t created by someone with a sense of humor then I would very worried.

I’m guessing that you are correct. It sounds very . . . comment es q’on dit . . . satirical?

@cystic:

@bossk:

Perhaps I’m a little too innocent, but I find that quote quite hilarious. If it wasn’t created by someone with a sense of humor then I would very worried.

I’m guessing that you are correct. It sounds very . . . comment es q’on dit . . . satirical?

its not, it is the opinion of a bus driver! Crazy eh? People are messed up in the head.

If God loved any Country, he had to love…wait, all countries suck!

@FinsterniS:

@HortenFlyingWing:

most americans believe in god, but by no means does it govern their lives…they do get offended easily!

The worst one i heard was “God loves America the most…”

I find THIS pretty worrying

so do I…people belive in God because they were brought up to…don’t dis god, but God can’t cramp their style.

@FinsterniS:

people belive in God because they were brought up to

Sound like Richard Dawkins analogy (religion is a virus)

so is patriotism, beliefs about education, economies, just about anything. Also many people disbelieve in God as another tool to rebel against their parents. Too simplistic.

I’m with TG on that thing about Bush being a idiot because of his beliefs in religion being a part of the nation. The sad part of it is that its true, at least in schools because ever since the beginning of the 20th century there had always been conflicts between public schools and teachers or parents over things like teaching the theory of evolution in schools which they wouldn’t because it was against the word of the bible or something along those lines. Then we move along to about the '50’s or '60’s where atheist parents or parents of different religions were fighting to have prayer removed from schools because reciting it was against their beliefs(atheists by having to pray to god) or because it wasnt their god(case of muslims or most any other religion than christian). Worse yet, some of the hardcore christians have, even to this day, continued to fight to put prayer in the public school system even though it was removed since it was a conflict between the state and church.

I’m not saying religion is bad or anything, I’m just trying to show how the government had tried to mix religion with state which shouldn’t be done not just because of my belief that is shouldn’t but because its in our Constitition that church and state are to be separated.

“I’m with TG on that thing about Bush being a idiot because of his beliefs in religion being a part of the nation”

name one example whe he signed legislation because of religion?

“If God loved any Country, he had to love…wait, all countries suck!”

Nah, I think you’re forgetting a little place called Lesotho. :wink: (We’ll maybe the Vatican if you’re Catholic)

“people belive in God because they were brought up to”
“Also many people disbelieve in God as another tool to rebel against their parents”

Nah, my parents are Atheist and I’m not exactly rebelling against them. Of course, I consider owning your own place, cooking your own meals, accepting your own responsibilities, and paying your own bills rebelling.

“theory of evolution in schools. Then we move along to about the '50’s or '60’s where atheist parents or parents of different religions were fighting to have prayer removed from schools because reciting it was against their beliefs(atheists by having to pray to god) or because it wasnt their god(case of muslims or most any other religion than christian). Worse yet, some of the hardcore christians have, even to this day, continued to fight to put prayer in the public school system even though it was removed since it was a conflict between the state and church.”

Well you can agree that things are changing for the better. 100 years ago, evolution was a big no-no in schools. Now it’s finally being taught as a legitimate form of science (though more in microevolution than macroevolution). Plus I don’t remember praying in any of the schools at my age (of course you’re allowed to, ie freedom of speech), so I say we’re finding a nice healthy medium between the two.