War on Drugs

Easy. I’m a member of the Young Republicans Club. You can figure the rest out.

If I were a younger man, I would write a history of human stupidity; and I would lie down on my back with my history for a pillow; and I would make a statue of myself, lying on my back, grinning horribly, thumbing my nose at You Know Who. - Bokonon

[ This Message was edited by: TG Moses VI on 2002-06-14 21:47 ]

you are wrong. I have read the statistics…people drank less than in 1916, but mre than 1919…and it was on the rise.

If drinking increased in 1919 it was becuase the US was in a recession caused by the end of the Great War. Surplus of people fresh from the military without jobs + the sudden halt of wartime production = recession. That generally means more people drinking.

your a republican yet you seem to suport leftist and maxist ideals.

that is the bigist contradiction i have ever heard

Moses - i said that that was a weak series of arguments. Now deal with the meat of my statement (please?)

“your a republican yet you seem to suport leftist and maxist ideals.
that is the bigist contradiction i have ever heard”

Notice that’s where the “radical” conservative motif fits in. :smile:

“i said that that was a weak series of arguments.”

Wait… what are we talking about here? I’m off track.

@TG:

Drugs do exactly as they’re told, it is up to the user’s will to decide if he wants to ruin his life by taking drugs.

This is my biggest problem with The War On (Some) Drugs; this idea that it is the drugs that ruin the users life. To be sure this is the case with some users of some drugs. Heroin is destructive. Meth is destructive. Ditto cocaine a lot of the time. But in the case of a lot of other so-called “drugs”, it isn’t the drugs that do the damage, it is the laws against the drugs. This is most true of marijuana. The vast majority of pot smokers are hard working, tax paying, every day regular types of folks. The ruin they risk is the ruin of being arrested, put in jail, losing their jobs and all that entails, simply because the substance is illegal and not because of any harm the drug itself did. When you get down to the actual reality of the situation, you see that the effects of the laws against drugs are far worse than the effects of the drugs themselves could ever be.

You brought up marijuana, which I find interesting. Marijuana is far less lethal than alcohol (it’s almost impossible to overdose on marijuana), yet it’s the one that’s illegal. Also the side effects of marijuana aren’t nearly as life threatening. You rarely ever see major traffic accidents on account of marijuana, but for drunk driving, it is the opposite. Over 50% of all teenage deaths are caused with a combination of cars and alcohol. As are the numbers of aggravated assaults with marijuana users compared with alcohol users. Also, many call marijuana a gateway drug, but lets look at the facts:

During the depenalization era, the Dutch adopted their tolerant policy in part to separate the soft and hard drug markets, theorizing that this might weaken the so-called “gateway” link – the concept that marijuana users are more likely than non-users to move on to hard drugs.
This study suggests the Dutch may have had some success in this regard. The probability of trying cocaine among marijuana users is 22 percent in Amsterdam, but 33 percent in the U.S.

maybe Americans have more reason for doing cocaine :D

Marijuana is really bad for you. One joint is like smoking a pack of cigarettes. A lot of car accidents are caused by Marijuana. Marijuana causes cancer, heart disease, and suppresses the Immune system. It causes long and short term memory loss. It seriously deprivates the user’s ability to think and reason. It ussually has other drugs/substances mixed into it. I can go get my little sheet if you don’t trust me and want the bibliography. I’m just too lazy right now to ruffle through my bag.

And Moses, why the hell do you call yourself a conservative? YOu support no conservative ideas. If your clubmates found out your true beliefs they would probably excommunicate you. You could probably found the anti-right/anti-republican/anti-conservative party.

I know cigarettes are less dangerous depending on most situations compared with marijuana, but certainly not compared to alcohol, which is legal. “Indulgence in [Cannabis] marijuana, unlike alcohol, rarely bring the habitué into a state of extreme intoxication where he loses entire control over himself. As a rule, those who indulge habitually can carry on their ordinary vocations for long periods and do not become a burden to society or even a nuisance." - U.N. Bulletin on Narcotics

“And Moses, why the hell do you call yourself a conservative? YOu support no conservative ideas. If your clubmates found out your true beliefs they would probably excommunicate you. You could probably found the anti-right/anti-republican/anti-conservative party.”

Give me a list of your “conservative ideas,” I’m interested in seeing them. Tell me your definition of “Conservative.” Simply because I support some leftist policies does that make me entirely non-conservative. Also by saying I support no conservative ideas is a broad generalization. Have you been around me long enough, to know all my beliefs and say none of them are conservative? Go ahead and answer this for me, seeing as you “seem” to know all my “non-conservative” ideas.

Let’s say a Conservative Republican was centered around six policies: 1) Less Crime 2) More Candy for All 3) Bush your teeth 4) Star Wars is good movie 5) Apple Pie is Yummy 6) It’s okay to murder

If conservatives believed murdering is right, and I believed otherwise, does that simply make me entirely non-conservative even though I answered, “yes” to the previous 5 policies? Of course you would like to think so, since you know every thing there is to know about me.

I like Candy :D

Yeah, I do too. :roll: But to say I am simply a Conservative because I choose to believe in one of their doctrines is a serious misjudgment. It is also another misjudgment to say that simply because I don’t believe candy is good, it makes me a non-Conservative (in a Republican sense, not as ‘conservative’ [lower cased] meaning no change).

@Yanny:

Yeah, personally I think the war on Drugs is ineffective, and really isn’t our business.

Isn’t any of our business?? You’re right, when someone sniffs the crack, then goes on a shooting rampage and kills my family….that’s absolutely none of my business… :evil:

If the American people are willing to pay for (and they are willing to pay for) laws and enforcement to keep druggies away from their children, why even consider legalizing it? This country runs on the majority vote and that’s exactly how laws banning drugs are put into play. So obviously, more people than not think that drugs are worth fighting against.

Further, don’t try to justify legalizing drugs because alcohol is legal. Legalizing another harmful substance is going to do absolutely nothing to solve the crisis that taking place as we speak.

See Horten’s graph of alcohol consumption during prohibition, it actually when up!

As for drug legalization, legalization does not mean approval. America spends at least $20 billion a year to fight a losing battle against drugs. (Research by William F. Buckley places America’s direct and indirect costs of this “war” at more than $200 billion a year.) Experts say that worldwide, the annual drug trade may be as high as $500 billion! “Just say no” ain’t gonna stop that. The drug trade provides an economic incentive for children and teens to drop out of school and earn fast money. It accounts for 50 percent of all street crimes and perhaps 30 percent of the prison population. Tax drugs, and use the money for drug treatment and additional police protection. Drug legalization would free up prison spaces, vacancies that could be used to lock up violent criminals. What about the harm to society? Drug abuse would have to increase well over fivefold to match the deaths caused by cigarette smoking (allegedly 400,000 a year).

Marijuana, the primary focus of the drug war, drains half of its resources and tying up about a third of the criminal justice system. An 80% increase in marijuana arrests since 1993 has led to 700,000 annual arrests, about 88% for possession, more than the number of arrests for murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault combined. I think those law enforcement and criminal justice should be more adapt to capturing criminals, murderers, and other hoodlums that prosecuting drug users, simply arrested for pocession in the privacy of their own home.

First, I am not really a conservative. In political tests I ussually test as extremely center. How ever that is a misnomer, my beliefs vary WIDELY to different camps based upon the issue. In a political test that kind of thing cancels it self out.

To pull a Moses, I am a “pragmatic idealist”

Second, Conservatives tend to support economic freedoms and personal limitations.

Ussually consevatives support

-Gun ownership
-Free trade
-Less business limitations
-less social programs
-drug laws
-anti-prostitution laws
-anti-abortion laws

As I understand it, Moses, you are for a Communist system, and for the legalization of prostitution and drugs, and for abortion, which is against all the attributes I listed.

Ha, that’s it? :roll:

How about adding cloning, affirmative action, military, education, environment, social security, religion, regulation, privatization, internet and technology, health, science, welfare reform, capital punishment, racial profiling, the media, censorship, IRS, gay rights, Israel/Palestine, budget/tax, child support, law enforcement, energy plan, homeland defense, terrorism, missile defense, humanitarian aid, culture, family, vouchers, term limits, government reform, euthanasia, nuclear arms, foreign aid, civil rights, immigration, personal freedom, constitution, personal responsibility, moral values, arts funding, federalism, economic growth, transportation, and whatever else from the top of my head to the list?

don’t forget aliens.