Iraq, again

@F_alk:

@StrongBad1988:

we know FOR SURE that he had biological weapons in '91, when he gassed the Kurds, what evidence has he shown us that he got rid of those??

The gassing of the Kurds was before '91 and he used chemical weapons for that.

even so, saddam won’t show those to us either. and since they’re just “chemical weapons”(oh which are just always fine to have) i guess that means you wouldn’t really mind if he gassed where you live with some of these chincy “chemical weapons”

@StrongBad1988:

@F_alk:

@StrongBad1988:

we know FOR SURE that he had biological weapons in '91, when he gassed the Kurds, what evidence has he shown us that he got rid of those??

The gassing of the Kurds was before '91 and he used chemical weapons for that.

even so, saddam won’t show those to us either. and since they’re just “chemical weapons”(oh which are just always fine to have) i guess that means you wouldn’t really mind if he gassed where you live with some of these chincy “chemical weapons”

Hello?
Anybody there?
What makes you think i would get to that ridiculous conclusion??
All i did was correcting you, of course with the aim to discredit you for your display of and judging on incorrect knowledge.

f_alk
I lived just outside of ascheffensburg, closer to wurzberg, I ball parked the 100 miles to fulda I cant exactly recall. at the time I was recalling terrorists blew up some buildings on the (i Believe) kiaserslautern kasern.
I also remember that terrorists captured and hanged some master sergant or colonel- and that as a matter of policy- due to the danger- soldiers weren’t recommended to go into the localities off base alone.
the blowing up your country was also a matter of military policy. we frequently had neo or neoc (some lame acronim) evacuation drills, where every one would learn where to go if the russians attacked so that we could escape- presumeably back to the USA.
and the blowing up thing was that if the russians did attack, and made it to the rhine- we’d nuke the whole darn country to prevent them from having it.
I’m glad you didn’t feel threatened, not that there was anything for you to do if you did. your country’s fate wasn’t in your hands anymore at that point. I lived there from 78-95 and although bavaria is nice americans aren’t well recieved. we are too culturally different.
and don’t argue with that either, I have many many photos of the american’s go home protests and the anti nuke protests from that time.
I think I may even still have a poster as well.
in arguing here I am starting to see some interesting aspects of human behavior. I can see that their is some disparity between the facts- at least as I see them, and other’s perceptions of those same facts. I wonder if we were discussing roswell and I said that it is unlikely that the USA captured an alien crew and spaceship. based not on some report but merely on the overwhelming odds that such a race exists and that travel (many hundreds of times) faster than light is highly improbable. would you still argue? I think you would. WHY? because your opinions are already made up. the government lies therefore there ARE aliens.
I won’t argue anymore, but one must admit that our reality, is based solely on our own personal experiences and our own set of facts as we percieve them, and thusly what we believe in and what we are willing to fight and die for is based souly on our own biased individualism.
ps F_alk I really enjoyed my time in germany- don’t think I didn’t. but I was an outsider looking in. here I have things that I never could have gotten there. we are culturally different-

yanny, maybe I didn’t make my point too clearly.

firstly, I would like to apologize to all those commies who were affected by me calling them commies. I just thought it was something I could hear sheriff justice (jackie gleason) saying “what we’ve got here is just plain, old fashioned communism!”

secondly I think the $5.00 per gallon thing missed it’s mark. what I was trying to say was that - IF we are going there for OIL (which I doubt). than we have only liberals to blame. we have maore oil in this country than anyone else in the world- and yet we can’t drill it. normally for environmental concerns (I too am concerned but what choice do we have?), but also because for some reason unions make it more expensive to drill our own oil than to import it. I wasn’t asking if it would be fair for americans to pay as much for gas as other less influential nations. america’s economy is driven by oil. if gas crosses the two dollar thresh hold you will see a major economic disaster. and if our economy sinks then the world’s economy destabalizes and the political climate around the world changes. so like it or not - oil is important.
and as a mechanic I know where cars are headed. hydrogen fuel cell cars will be out on tyhe market by 2005. and supposubly they are already in some test markets. but is that the answer- no. over the last 15 years we’ve tripled (and some) fuel economy. in the early 80’s a good car got 12 mpg. now we get 32- 38. has this reduced our dependancy on foreign oil??? no. so explain how a battery powered car will do it??? I’m all for advanced technology in cars. they are sofisticated enough now so that joe shmoe can’t screw around with it anymore. I’m tech savvy and semi edjucated, bring it on - but it won’t stop our need for oil.
and the reply about roswell was exactly what I expected. I said I seriously doubt that our gov. had a space ship. not because they said so, but because of the improbability of faster than light travel and the odds of another INTELLIGENT species of life evolving out there. then as expected you said “we can’t prove or disprove anything” because our gov. lies. THAT’S EXACTLY THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE. you ignore the facts and simply stated the facts of your opinion. (what ever that means)

two men from the same small town decide to go to new york city on vacation. for whatever reason they go seperately- traveller A goes, meets a hot chick and parties. Traveller B goes happens to end up in the wrong place at the wrong time, gets brutally beaten and mugged. later they meet back in their hometown to discuss their trip. traveller B exclaims " new York sucks it’s a corrupt cess pool where thugs prey on the unsuspecting". traveller A looks and him puzzled and says “you’re a liar, new york is great”.
who’s right ? well like I said it depends greatly on your point of veiw. in my opinion we should go into Iraq- in the interests of national security. (and YANNI col. powwell will be making those “imaginary” ties of mine -between sadam and bin laden- quite real next week. why do I think they are linked? we taught sadam. and it’s what we would do. get your weak bossy enemy to attack your strong one, kill two birds with one stone.)
I have a friend in the 82nd air borne. he told me that before he left for afgan. that he was of the opinion that Iraq and somallia were next. and that was before they cranked up the propaganda machine against sadam.

lighten up, it was not ignorance towards communism- it was comedy- smokey and the bandit???
I know enough about the re distribution of wealth to know that in principle, theory and practice it’s wrong. Why should I give up part of what I work for- for the benefit of a few dreggs who can’t survive on their own? why should I go to work and bust my hump to get the same quality of life as my neighbor who is out of work with a “back injury” or my uncle who has no means to support his ten kids. hell they drive nicer cars than I do. that is the essence of communism. take from the haves give to the have nots- everybody’s equal, happy and without social turmoil.
well that fails to take into account peoples desire to be rewarded for hard work. and peoples despair when they see others (who couldn’t survive without government subsistance) rewarded for being sloths.
hell now I’m really upset, let’s discuss the relationship between communism the democratic party and welfare- or for that matter unemployment. any takers??
A MAN IS ONLY WORTH AS MUCH AS HE CAN WORK FOR. it doesn’t matter the skin color, or sexual orientation, what matters to me is could you be useful enough to survive without the government? I can, I do it every day. and I don’t appreciate part of my income going to subsidize dead beat bums who live off of the system.
maybe you can tell me… in a communist society what does the guy who always gives 110% get??? how about the slacker who slides by B>S>ing his way thru life???

@alamein:

maybe you can tell me… in a communist society what does the guy who always gives 110% get??? how about the slacker who slides by B>S>ing his way thru life???

this is what i have often thought about. this is why months before the soviet union fell, people in the city were starving to death, b/c the farmers had discovered that it was cheaper to not send their crops to the city at all, to just eat and keep what they needed and let the rest rot. communism CANNOT succeced. to have it work, you need everyone to give 100% ALL THE TIME. this is not possible, as there is no motivation whatsoever. you get paid just as much as the next guy, even if you work for 14 hours a day and he just sits on his butt and watches TV all day. this is why communism has not succeeded anywhere. ever. and it never will.

nuclear energy is the worst Idea for self sufficiency. It’s FAR too dangerous. environmentally speaking you have extremely toxic waste, and the process itself is the most inefficent way to harness the enrgy released from the reaction. if you could harness that energy directly- instead of turning it to steam to turn a turbine then I might agree. and electric cars aren’t that good or dependable. they lack performance. the newer hydrogen fuel cell cars will be a much better solution, and in the interm the diesel and gasoline electric cars get incredible mileage. electic cars create other problems as well. how long does your cell phone battery last? and what -you probably throw it in the trash right? that’s great for the environment- but now imagine a battery four to eight times the size of the one in your current vehicle. what the hell are you gonna do with that every four years (or less) when you need a new one??? batteries decay-short- and are unrelyable. we will be swicthing to 42 volt batteries in cars within the next few years to further increase fuel economy. this will require even larger batteries.
there is no car manufacturer conspiracy to make you buy gas cars- the technology is just now becoming reliable enough and more importantly affordable enough to use alternative fuels.
consider this
the auto manufacterers realize that they have taken the ICE (gas engine) as far as they can to meet goverment stantards. to meet future standards they know they need the next great leap in technology.
for instance- fuel injection has been out since the sixties- it has the benefits of lower emmissions and higher gas mileage. why then wasn’t it placed on all cars?? NO IT"S NOT A GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY. it is because the technology was not streamlined enough to mass market. as the technology developed we went from carbs, to feedback carbs, to Throttle body injection, to multi port injection and finally to tune port.
we now have the gas engine performing at such a high efficiency that the only tweaks we can make to increase fuel economy are as follows:
-thinning the oil to reduce drag
-switching to electronic brakes to reduce drag
-switching to electronic steering to eleminate the pump thusly - drag
and so on- miniscule changes.
they know that the next step is hybrid cars, and that’s a stop gap until the new hydrogen vehicles are perfected. electric cars stink- their belts break they have no power, big batteries and are limited in size. plus they are expensive.
that is how I see it, you guys all ripped me a new one when I made my anti communist babble. so don’t take it too hard if i disagree on something that I do know about.

after making my anti-communist babble, i feel like i’m about to be ripped to shreds by those who know more about it than i do.
by the way alamein, when are we gonna play A&A on the zone? how about like saturday or sunday

strongbad you are a kid after my own blackened and diseased conservative heart. I hope you don’t end up in your late twenties defending your opinions on the internets axis and allies website because you have nothing better to do. :cry:

saturday is cool. just let me know about what time cartoons get over-just kidding I myself watch them with my son- let me know about a good time-
well i gotta go my boy wants a rematch in 007

me too alamein. me too :cry:

hmmm i’m not really sure what time for staurday… i usually wake up @ 9 or 10 so maybe like 10:30? i dunno, whatever time is good for you i guess… what bond game are you schooling your kid in? one on the N64? or like on xbox or ps2 or gamecube? (i heard the new ones for xbox and ps2 and gamecube are awful, but i loved goldeneye back in the day… like 3 years ago) there are great games for the new systems though, like splinter cell and ghost recon and halo

let’s make it 11:00 est. in the zone. I’ve got a ps2, mostly for my boy, but i like to play the madden games. I still haven’t tried the nickle blitz yet. - been arguing too much. the bond game is the older agent under fire. I don’t think we’ve ever played the game - just the multi player- he nearly beat me today- we had the golden guns -one shot one kill- I had to cheat a bit to remain the dominant male.

but is that the answer- no. over the last 15 years we’ve tripled (and some) fuel economy. in the early 80’s a good car got 12 mpg. now we get 32- 38. has this reduced our dependancy on foreign oil???

Imagine what our economy would be like if cars still got 12 mpg.

Communism at it’s heart is pure Democracy, more pure than Capitalism.

People define democracy in different ways.

If the Government would wake up and switch to Nuclear Energy and Hydrogen power, we wouldn’t need oil.

The transition time takes long – not to mention the fact nuclear energy is not supported by the maj. of Americans.

Mainstream hydrogen powered vehicles will be on sale to the public in less than 2 months

Proof? :o

My point is, the Government has been covering something up for 50 years, and the American people have a right to know about it.

It depends how vital to national secruity it is. Is it wasn’t, then the government would’ve released this data a long time ago to end speculation. There are still documents classified from WWII…

lighten up, it was not ignorance towards communism- it was comedy- smokey and the bandit???
I know enough about the re distribution of wealth to know that in principle, theory and practice it’s wrong. Why should I give up part of what I work for- for the benefit of a few dreggs who can’t survive on their own? why should I go to work and bust my hump to get the same quality of life as my neighbor who is out of work with a “back injury” or my uncle who has no means to support his ten kids. hell they drive nicer cars than I do. that is the essence of communism. take from the haves give to the have nots- everybody’s equal, happy and without social turmoil.
well that fails to take into account peoples desire to be rewarded for hard work. and peoples despair when they see others (who couldn’t survive without government subsistance) rewarded for being sloths.
hell now I’m really upset, let’s discuss the relationship between communism the democratic party and welfare- or for that matter unemployment. any takers??
A MAN IS ONLY WORTH AS MUCH AS HE CAN WORK FOR. it doesn’t matter the skin color, or sexual orientation, what matters to me is could you be useful enough to survive without the government? I can, I do it every day. and I don’t appreciate part of my income going to subsidize dead beat bums who live off of the system.
maybe you can tell me… in a communist society what does the guy who always gives 110% get??? how about the slacker who slides by B>S>ing his way thru life???

Read my topics on communism!!! :o It’s funny that you contradict yourself by saying “well that fails to take into account peoples desire to be rewarded for hard work… and peoples despair when they see others rewarded for being sloths,” yet this was the very basis for Marx’s Theory of Surplus Value. Why should the idle capitalist be rewarded for the surplus labor extracted from the working laborer?

maybe you can tell me… in a communist society what does the guy who always gives 110% get??? how about the slacker who slides by B>S>ing his way thru life???

Sigh If you want to start a “Communism vs. Capitalism” Thread, then I will be happy to respond to it. As for your comments, read some of Hind’s works on work distribution of primitive societies.

this is why months before the soviet union fell, people in the city were starving to death, b/c the farmers had discovered that it was cheaper to not send their crops to the city at all, to just eat and keep what they needed and let the rest rot.

It fell because the centralized minority did not pay attention or try to represent the needs of the people…

to have it work, you need everyone to give 100% ALL THE TIME.

This is simply not true. It would be equal to saying that in capitalism, the suppler produces at 100% efficency. For communism, what if each person only had to work a few hours a day?

the newer hydrogen fuel cell cars will be a much better solution, and in the interm the diesel and gasoline electric cars get incredible mileage. electic cars create other problems as well. how long does your cell phone battery last?

Most likely you will see hybrid vehicles start to become mainstream (already the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight are out on the market) near the mid to late 2000’s, with FVC’s not making headway in the market by the end of the decade.

that’s great for the environment- but now imagine a battery four to eight times the size of the one in your current vehicle. what the hell are you gonna do with that every four years (or less) when you need a new one??? batteries decay-short- and are unrelyable. we will be swicthing to 42 volt batteries in cars within the next few years to further increase fuel economy. this will require even larger batteries.

Uh, no. I have worked with Southern California Edison Electric before and some of their battery vehicles (EV-1’s) have lasted as much as 100,000 miles without change in battery. Also the batteries used in Ev’s are recyclable. Also the batteries in cars today are much higher, the RAV4-EV’s use 288 total voltage.

for instance- fuel injection has been out since the sixties- it has the benefits of lower emmissions and higher gas mileage. why then wasn’t it placed on all cars?? NO IT"S NOT A GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY. it is because the technology was not streamlined enough to mass market. as the technology developed we went from carbs, to feedback carbs, to Throttle body injection, to multi port injection and finally to tune port.

Today we have plenty of other ways to reduce fuel emissions and higher MPG’s like electronic valve control.

strongbad you are a kid after my own blackened and diseased conservative heart

I thought us conservatives should be more tempered and more rational? :)

TG mostly I’ll respond to the vehicle stuff-
batteries that will go 100, 000 miles? I said four years- typically the customers that I deal with will have closer to 150K on their cars in four years. so it’s the same differense- no offense.

and I keep on top of the industry- it’s my job. I’ve dealt with electric cars- as part of wright patt afb’s emmissions compliance program, and that’s where I base my opinions on that. also the types of cars were seeing now- the hybrid ULV’s and the SULv’s ARE just a stop gap. we are extremely close to full production of the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. it doesn’t work like an IC engine. it has more to do with hydrogen cell stacking- more like a battery- I’ll refresh myself and then comment tomarrow.

I thought it was funny that bush said we’ll push forward on the issue of hydrogen fuel cars- to me it’s almost like saying- tomarrow i’m going to set in motion a serious of events that will lead to massive global communication- and I’ll call it the internet. :D

also you miss my point on communism. I don’t work on cars to get rich, it’s a challenge. kind of like solving a puzzle. where the reward is a job well done and a feeling of accomplishment. where does some one like me fit in in a communist society where IDEALLY everyone is happy with the mundain. WOW we could all work three hours a day- that sounds great if your Ideal goal is to get down to living comfortably and working no hours per day. but what about me? I work harder and expect more- and I demand more from others- line me up for the firing squad I guess?
to me communism almost seems like a day dreamers paradise. we’ll all be rich, and have all the beer you can drink, and all the women will be really hot to. and we can work if we want to , then we can just be cool man.

and the part where you said it seemed like I was contradicting myself- I’m not quite sure what you mean-
your quote almost (to me ) infers that why should the boss get rich off the fruit of my labors while I sit here being poor. that’s not what I said. to me the boss gets rich because he has the most to loose. and I’m not poor- I’m not rich either - but I work harder so I deserve more.
no, what I said was I am the worker bee, I bring nectur back to the hive. why should cleetus’s big butt get some of my nectur!? all he does is longe around the hive and complain that he can’t fly because his back hurts. mean while he’s running around bench pressing beer cans and driving a bigger SUV than me. does that make any sense? probably not. I’m tired see you tomarrow.

“TG mostly I’ll respond to the vehicle stuff-
batteries that will go 100, 000 miles? I said four years- typically the customers that I deal with will have closer to 150K on their cars in four years. so it’s the same differense- no offense.”

I hope that I am not too out of line when I respond to TG’s post. Current analyst in this area predict that the average battery on a Electric Vehicle will last 3 to 5 years (200,000+ miles or 500 cycles), depending on how much you drive. The replacement batteries cost from $600 to $1500, which is not as expensive as you think considering all the maintenance and fuel cost with a normal ICE.

“we are extremely close to full production of the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle.”

Actually at the school that I go to, we are working hard to build a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle (proton exchange membrane). >^^< What product are you working on? How much were you able to lower the cost of 1 kW from a FC under mass production? ^^

When it comes to communism, I care more about humanity than a desire for industry profits. However, TG says I can never be a communist. :cry:

Tg
don’t think I’m arguing with you, I don’t have an argumentative tone while I’m writing (YOU). I can see we are agreeing on many issues. however the benefits / drawbacks of communism isn’t/aren’t one of them. I feel strongly about hard work, dedication, and working for my goals. I see the belief that everything can be easy if we all just… as being contrary to those beliefs.
I recognise that ho chi mihn was a great leader. and that the form of communism veitnam adopted was very beneficial - temporarily to by far the majority of the people- who before had nothing. but there has to be social class distinction. any socialist/communist society still maintains class distinction. those who rule have more- and therefore merely subjegate the masses. maybe in a perfect word we could all be nomadic grazers where we are all equal, but in reality I can’t see how anyone would tolerate life in moderation- or life at someone elses pace. we’d either fall prey to a more organized less lethargic society, or we’d all be so lazy we’d just shoot ourselves to get it over with. unless of course your commie society was the one with the chicks and booze - in that case I’m in. :D