Best WW2 Videogame you have played!

Mussolini (and many others) thought the war all but won by Germany - hence the quote you post. From that starting point, with his political views and territorial aspirations, declaring war was an easy decision.

When you say “at this day and age” I think you mean with the largely pro-facist Italian mindset of 1940? So ignoring hindsight and my own morality?

Please clarify RJL.

Thanks
PP

@CWO:

@ABWorsham:

Lets remember, had the Germans not invaded Greece then Rommel’s adventure in Africa is much different. His role would have been to save Tripoli, instead of counter-attacking and driving to Egypt.

I’m not sure Greece was the cause.  As I recall, when Hitler originally sent Rommel to Africa he basically gave him orders to simply dig in and hold the line.  If that was indeed Hitler’s intention, then he made a serious mistake in his choice of generals because Rommel was definitely not a dig-in-and-hold-the-line kind of commander.  Rommel was even prepared to interpret his orders in creative ways which technically adhered to their letter but not to their spirit: for purposes of paperwork, for example, he described first major offensive in North Africa as simply a "reconnaissance in force."  He ended up routing the British and driving them practically back to Egypt – and with those kinds of results, of course, Hitler was happy to overlook the fact that Rommel hadn’t done what Hitler had wanted him to do.

All true.

Had the 6th Australian, 2nd New Zealand and British 1st Armored been in North Africa instead of Greece, Rommel may have been forced to ‘obey orders’ with his 5th Light Division.

@toblerone77:

@ABWorsham:

@toblerone77:

like reminiscing about an ex-girlfriend that was a fabulous cook, hot looks and great in bed, however she was totally insane decided to start shooting the neighbors LOL.

I like the comparison!

Well considering Italian troop quility of the time, Italy may have decended into revolution even before the Russins in this case. :-o

Germany because of the SS’s elite training and morale stemming from their admirable mission to defend Europe from Bolshevism. Kurt is absolutely right about the Soviets planning to invade Europe, and yes, including Germany. This is why the Germans had such success at first by attacking a mere 2 weeks before the Soviets. All The Soviets’ airfields and other pertinent facilities and equipment was DIRECTLY behind the front lines in preparation for supporting the advancing army proceeding kilometers ahead. See Operation Groza(Thunderstorm). http://defence.pk/threads/operation-groza-soviet-invasion-of-western-europe-july-6-1941.293859/
Btw, the Germans would have won if they had implemented “total war” production practices that the British had done in 1940 and Soviet Union had done at the outbreak of hostilities with Germany. They did not do so until 1943 because they cared about citizens’ well-being and morale. This is why they were so far behind regarding equipment totals.

didnt see much action in the war cuz it was almost over…but the B36 Peacemaker was one BIG sucker!!!

aequitas et veritas wrote:

As you can clearly read, I wrote that timeover will not response to this as a member.

You are right. And that merely reinforces my theory. After eight straight years of checking this thread, awaiting my response, he finally grew disillusioned and disappointed. So much so that he canceled his membership to this forum. :(

Now, one could reasonably ask, “Why would he have been awaiting my response for eight straight years when I haven’t even been here that long?” Well you see, on some level he sensed that I should be here, and that I’d be showing up here sooner or later. He evidently felt that “sooner” was more likely than “later,” so that I could respond to his thread. Which, let the record reflect, I did. Eventually. Better late than never, right? :)

This topic will submerge like a Tanker hit by a German Submarine.

Ah, but like a Type XXI U-boat, this topic emerged after having been submerged eight straight years! :o Maybe it will submerge again, only to surface in another eight years. :D

KurtGodel7, very good post, thank you.

I’m still not convinced however, I’ll reply to a few of your points below further:

Germany desperately needed the Russian oil by 1943 (as well as Russian grain which I will discuss further below).  That they failed to take the Caucasus during this time was their last realistic chance at victory, IMO.  However, had they taken the oil wells, but with the Russians destroying them in the process as was quite likely, would the Germans be able to restore the flow of oil in sufficient time? It might take months, even years to rebuild the necessary infrastructure in the best of circumstances, let alone during a brutal war.  The German industry was already hard pressed to supply the necessary armaments and did not have a great deal of experience with oil industry in the first place.  I think they would not have been able to do this.

The same idea goes for the chromium, vanadium, etc., though this would be less difficult for the Germans to accomplish (or mitigate as you also suggest) than the oil problem.

While Germany might have been able to supply an equivalent amount of money, material and engineers to work on their atomic program, there simply were much fewer top nuclear physicists in all Europe than existed in the US.  Consequently, it would have probably cost more and taken longer than the US program for this reason alone.  I have no doubt they could have eventually done it, but I don’t see how they develop nuclear weapons before the allies developed a delivery system that could get through their defenses.

The German V-2 was a technological marvel, but other than size, no more advanced than the rockets being built by Dr. Goddard.  After the war, when Dr. Goddard was able to examine a captured V-2, he was convinced the Germans had stolen his work.  And the Germans might have because most of his designs were on file in the US patent office, available for public viewing (which the Germans did prior to the war).  I think had the Americans wanted to (and Dr. Goddard certainly did) they could have built a superior rocket in a couple months and have it mass-produced in six.  As the A-bombs designs at that time were quite heavy, it might have taken longer than that to build a nuclear capable rocket…but how much longer?

Alternatively, the Allies could have either copied the German jets to enable a delivery system, or devise other means (boats/submarines? special ops?) to deliver these weapons.

In addition, I consider the German attack on Russia to be about food as well as oil  The Ukraine was the breadbasket of Europe, and helped the Germans tremendously in 1943.  But food was scarce in 1944 and onward.  Partly this was due to Russian recovery of territory.  But it was also because the Ukraine was normally not sufficient by itself to feed Germany (the year of the capture of Ukraine by the Germans was one of the best years for Ukrainian agriculture as the weather was nearly perfect).  Of course, the poor treatment of the Ukrainians by the Germans did not lend itself to helping this problem either. In order to assure itself of adequate food, I think the Caucasus (the next logical food source) was needed.