Axis and Allies first turns - Russia

[Jennifer]

I agree with you on Bury.  As Japan I’ll obliterate the Bury forces even if I have to let America keep her fighter in China to do it.

As Russia, however, I recommend keeping the fighters in Moscow from Turn 2 and beyond.  (You may need them in Caucasus on Turn 1 to prevent a German amphibious assault of Caucasus.)  England and America should be staging fighters in Caucasus to set up a sinking of the Bismark, IMHO.

Also, before Round 4, I highly recommend getting a third fighter for Russia.  Makes strafing Kazakh, Novosibirsk and Evenki much easier, and less risky.  If you plan on it from the start, you can save up 3 IPC a round and on Round 4 you’ll already have 90% of that 3rd fighter saved up already.

As for stacks, I like to stack W. Russia then Karelia.  This allows England and America to reinforce and replace you slowely so you can move out and towards Japan.  It also secures Norway preventing, forever, a German reclaimation project there.  (I believe Russia needs Norway more then the other allies for income.  It replaces SFE, Yak and Evenki.)

[Guest]

Just trying to figure out how you stack Karelia as Russia…  at least without immediate and expensive Allied support, as well as not losing Caucuses in trade…

[NoMercy]

also in IMHO Norway is way more vital for England and way to far stretched later on or early for the Russians to actually take and hold.

Countless time I have used Norway as a staging ground for England and have placed a IC there for extra unit production when I hit 35-42$ range a turn and then I add a 5th transport so I can threaten WE, EE or GErmany with 10 units a turn + a BB-shot or fgts/bmb etc…

it works out good if the Germans press to far east as they won’t be reinforcing there front lines to much.

[newpaintbrush]

@ncscswitch:

Just trying to figure out how you stack Karelia as Russia… at least without immediate and expensive Allied support, as well as not losing Caucuses in trade…

I would not recommend stacking Karelia with Russia.  Karelia is only viable AFTER the Allies get the UK and US transport chains running.

@NoMercy:

also in IMHO Norway is way more vital for England and way to far stretched later on or early for the Russians to actually take and hold.

Countless time I have used Norway as a staging ground for England and have placed a IC there for extra unit production when I hit 35-42$ range a turn and then I add a 5th transport so I can threaten WE, EE or GErmany with 10 units a turn + a BB-shot or fgts/bmb etc…

it works out good if the Germans press to far east as they won’t be reinforcing there front lines to much.

I prefer to have Norway US controlled if possible.  Russia rarely controls Norway.  I have also used a UK IC at Norway, but I would far rather have a US IC there.  But I used the UK IC much as described.

[Jennifer]

@ncscswitch:

Just trying to figure out how you stack Karelia as Russia…  at least without immediate and expensive Allied support, as well as not losing Caucuses in trade…

Read what I typed.  You gloss over too much and miss the details of the message.

First stack W. Russia, THEN stack Karelia.  This implies at least a two round build up.  But I never stated it had to be done in two rounds, in fact, you’re probably looking at 3 or 4 rounds minimum depending on what your allies do.

[Guest]

And even then, it would preclude any major German stacking to achieve it.

If Russia is STACKING Karelia, AND still has Caucuses, Germany is already pretty much TOAST.

[Jennifer]

Germany almost always is toast against my Russia anyway.  It’s Japan that finally defeats Russia, but Germany’s almost always been reduced to Berlin, primarily because they cannot hope to pound through the Russians, Brits and Americans in Karelia and trading E. Europe.

Forget taking Caucasus.  You cannot even hold E. Europe without major assistance from Japan.

[goldenbearflyer]

Germany almost always is toast against my Russia anyway.  It’s Japan that finally defeats Russia, but Germany’s almost always been reduced to Berlin, primarily because they cannot hope to pound through the Russians, Brits and Americans in Karelia and trading E. Europe.

Agreed, but if Japanese tanks are in range of Moscow, isn’t one or two turns of building 8inf in Russia (Germany is presumably still threatened by UK and US), coupled with a few fighters, enough to prevent losing your capital?  I mean, you’re saying Japan usually proves the bigger threat, but how often do you actually lose Moscow?  Not that often, I would bet.

[NoMercy]

I think she looses her fair share of capitals.

In our current game, it’s round 7 and the only “safe” spot for any allied landings is Norway, Germany totally owns Europe and with the Japs already stacked in Novo adding 7-9 tanks a turn compared to 2-3 Russian units a turn it’s just when do I want to strike.

[U-505]

I would have to say that you should be careful about advancing heavy Russian forces too far into Europe. Drawing Russian ground units away from Russia is a trap I frequently like to set with Germany. It gets really had to resist trading a bunch of advanced territories with Germany because the prospect of Russia making 30+ IPC’s a turn puts dollar signs in the Russian player’s eyes. With the Axis outnumbering Russia by 5 to 1 with air units, trading a lot of territories and ground units with Russia almost always favors the Axis, even if the unit trade is 1 for 1. No matter how much Russia makes, Japan always outproduces them by up to twice as many units and that point will get hammered home when a large number of Russian forces are aimed at Germany and their reinforcements going west dry up instantly because they are desperately trying to hold back the flood of Japanese units coming at them. Japan has a tendence to look benign one turn and the next turn be all over the map, in force, and Russia can quickly get into trouble by being too aggressive toward Germany. Especially if the eastern defensive structure is poorly maintained.

Personally, I prefer the 5 inf, 1 art, 1 arm build on the first turn. It gives you a small offensive capability and still adds a good amound of defensive potential. I also like to add another fighter or two later, within reason, to be more fluid with my defenses and also be able to preserve the few offensive ground units available. I am selective with my trading, as opposed to taking everything in range, in order to keep my units concentrated. I try to delay Germany until the other Allies can pick up the European slack so I can rotate my forces to face Japan. I rarely advance past Belo, preferring to let Germany spread itself thin so the UK/US can pick a few of them off when they finally land in force.

[Jennifer]

@NoMercy:

I think she looses her fair share of capitals.

In our current game, it’s round 7 and the only “safe” spot for any allied landings is Norway, Germany totally owns Europe and with the Japs already stacked in Novo adding 7-9 tanks a turn compared to 2-3 Russian units a turn it’s just when do I want to strike.

Big talk from a guy who hasn’t posted a round in forever. :P

Yea, he’s insane with tanks.  Played a fluke of the dice and got Germany past 50 IPC in Round 2.  It was nuts.  He’s been reduced to Europe only, however, and it’s only a matter of time before he’s forced to throw his units against the Allied front and get reduced to a smoldering lump of destroyed tanks, because he has no support units of which to speak of. :P

[NoMercy]

I have been busy, sick and my computer has crashed and my tournament game comes first.

50+ IPC a turn means I will purchase my share of tanks yes, I think you forget my tanks alone is large then your Russian forces and that doesn’t count my 25+ support troops and my Japan troops which aren’t to shabby.

[Jennifer]

Yes, but you only got 50+ IPC cause of a fluke of the dice.  You didn’t keep it long and you don’t even have a toe hold in Africa anymore.

You might be able to get into Moscow, but it won’t be the Germans, it’ll be the Japanese - probably.  Unless you specifically force the Japanese to watch until you can somehow muster the troops to take out Moscow. hehe.

[goldenbearflyer]

Yes, but you only got 50+ IPC cause of a fluke of the dice.

Didn’t I read somewhere that she has a reputation for trash talk?  Booyah, in your face!  This is good stuff! :lol:

[Nix]

She can talk the talk but can she walk the walk??  :evil:  :-ov :wink:

[goldenbearflyer]

@Nix:

She can talk the talk but can she walk the walk?? :evil: :-ov :wink:

Are we still talking about Axis & Allies? :wink:

Nix, I just noticed the quote from Oscar Wilde; that is too funny!  I’m going to borrow that.  Then, when someone laughs (surely someone will laugh :?) I’ll say, “So, you agree with me?!” :-D

[Jennifer]

@goldenbearflyer:

Yes, but you only got 50+ IPC cause of a fluke of the dice.

Didn’t I read somewhere that she has a reputation for trash talk?  Booyah, in your face!  This is good stuff! :lol:

Oh this is total trash talk.  NoMercy’s one of the better players on the forum.  Just the fact that in almost every game he plays he somehow manages to get Germany sky rocketted up to 50 or 60 IPCs in a couple of rounds is testament to taht.

Though, his Japanese forces are always severely lacking and if he ever gets confronted with a KJF (hint future opponents) he’ll crumble like a house of cards in Hurricane Katrina.  I actually knew that prior to this game, but had temporarily forgotten this little piece of trivia.  Otherwise, I would have gone the KJF route myself on him.  (His entire strategy hinges on the allies retaking land from Germany and hten transferring it to Japan in the hopes that Germany can build fast enough to fall back on itself and allow Japan in the back door.)

[goldenbearflyer]

@Jennifer:

@goldenbearflyer:

Yes, but you only got 50+ IPC cause of a fluke of the dice.

Didn’t I read somewhere that she has a reputation for trash talk? Booyah, in your face! This is good stuff! :lol:

Oh this is total trash talk. NoMercy’s one of the better players on the forum. Just the fact that in almost every game he plays he somehow manages to get Germany sky rocketted up to 50 or 60 IPCs in a couple of rounds is testament to taht.

Though, his Japanese forces are always severely lacking and if he ever gets confronted with a KJF (hint future opponents) he’ll crumble like a house of cards in Hurricane Katrina. I actually knew that prior to this game, but had temporarily forgotten this little piece of trivia. Otherwise, I would have gone the KJF route myself on him. (His entire strategy hinges on the allies retaking land from Germany and hten transferring it to Japan in the hopes that Germany can build fast enough to fall back on itself and allow Japan in the back door.)

Hey, I could use NoMercy’s help with my G strategy then!  He’s holding back on me; maybe he doesn’t want to give away his secrets!?

Russia is not helpless, surely it can hold out on at least one of the two fronts until UK and US save the day.  Let’s get the discussion back to Russian strategy…

[newpaintbrush]

@goldenbearflyer:

Hey, I could use NoMercy’s help with my G strategy then!  He’s holding back on me; maybe he doesn’t want to give away his secrets!?

Russia is not helpless, surely it can hold out on at least one of the two fronts until UK and US save the day.  Let’s get the discussion back to Russian strategy…

I think the only real German strategy is to get 'em good and drunk.

–

I think the Russians should logically concentrate their forces in the west.  Why:

1.  Territories in west worth more IPCs.
2.  Can’t attack Asian coast (too vulnerable to Japanese transports), so advancing is very limited.
3.  Dead zones in Ssinkiang and China (that is, if Russia captures a Japanese-held Ssinkiang, and Japan captures Ssinkiang back on Japan’s turn, then the Allies never get the IPCs for those territories, because Japan recaptures before the US can collect.
4.  Russia needs to have a certain minimum number of infantry at West Russia, or Germany can go Kitchen Sink attack, after which Russia has to pull any forces that were directed towards Japan back to Moscow.
5.  KJF plans usually involve multinational forces.  Multinational forces have an easier time defending than attacking.  So KJF plans are usually not particularly flexible on the offensive.
6.  Africa is easy to reclaim with KGF.  Less so with KJF.
7.  Russian girls are hawt.

[goldenbearflyer]

1.  Territories in west worth more IPCs.

Oh, I did read the rest, but you could have stopped at 1.  The game really does come down to control of IPCs.  Until I actually pull off an Axix victory for myself (no really, I’m TOLD it can be done!), any plan for Germany that doesn’t involve taking IPCs from Russia early and often just doesn’t make sense to me mathematically.  Conversely, it makes sense to me to have Russia focus on Germany, yet play smart and opportunistically against Japan.  However, if the Allied consensus were to use KJF, then strategies like reinforcing Bury do make sense to me.