For going beyond 1851, I would have to add Metz & Sedan in 1870 to the list. The Prussian victory united Germany, making them the most powerful nation of Europe. I guess we all know the eventual consequences.
Also, the Marne in 1914. The stop of the advancing German army that began the 4 year stalemate that eventually undid the German dominance of Europe.
I definately agree with those choices, especially the Battle of Sedan. The unification of Germany disrupted the balance of power in Europe.
Probably not belonging on the same list, but important nonetheless: the Japanese defeat of the Russians at Port Aurthur and again at Tushima in 1904-5. It not only began the political destabilization of the Russian empire but also showed the world that it didn’t take a European power to be beat a European power.
Stalingrad for sure turned the tide of WWII on the Eastern Front
I too would have to add the Marne. But I would also throw Midway onto that list as the #2 naval battle behind the defeat of the Spanish Armada.
I can’t think of much to add to the original 15, but I suppose if you’re Canadian, you’re probably thankful that Benedict Arnold got stomped in his horribly bad invasion of Quebec at the start of the revolution.
Can you say “Northern United States”?
Top Five:
1. Stalingrad (changed the tide of the European land war)
2. Midway (did the same for the Pacific)
3. The Marne (already mentioned)
4. The Somme (first battle with tanks)
5. The 1980’s arms buildup (a Cold War battle which ended Russia dominance)
Oops… major one that was missed…
Gettysburg.
Change the entire nature of the United States.
A good one to add after 1851 is the Battle of Gettysburg. It was the turning point of the American Civil War, in which the Union broke the back of the Confederacy, thus allowing this country to be a Union again.
Edit: Damn you Switch! You beat me to it!! :lol:
Top Five:
1. Stalingrad (changed the tide of the European land war)
2. Midway (did the same for the Pacific)
3. The Marne (already mentioned)
4. The Somme (first battle with tanks)
5. The 1980’s arms buildup (a Cold War battle which ended Russia dominance)
I would actually list the Somme as one of the most indecisive battles of the world. Though it was the first use of tanks, the few that made it to the battle without breaking down had no effect on the battle’s already pointless outcome. Cambrai on the other hand, was the first effective use of tanks expolited by infantry breakthrough.
The Battle of Talas. 751 AD.
Battle between the Chinese Empire and Arab Caliphate. A time in history where China had expanded its control of central Asia more than any other time. Also the time when the early conquests of the great Arab Caliphate was growing. The defeat of the Chinese army there ultimately led to Islamic dominion of central Asia and the middle east which has remained the strong holds of the Islamic faith ever since. A loss to the Chinese at this battle may have likely left the Islamic faith no central core of lands to proposer in and its impact on our world very different today. Who knows what long term Chinese dominion of these lands may have meant. Could be the Mongol Empire would have had no place to expand into initially and have never formed.
The Battle of Baghdad. 1258 AD
While not a well matched set of forces, the fall of Baghdad and the Mongol sacking of the city and the subsequent destruction of the irrigation canals and other infrastructure shattered this land and set a land of open trade, free knowledge and understanding into its own dark age. Civilization in the middle east suffered a set back that to this day it has failed to recover from economically and culturally.
Battle of Samarkand (not sure if that is its proper name). 1220 AD.
Ghengis Khan and the Mongols capture and sack Samarkand. This was one of the most difficult challenges faced by the young Mongol Empire and conventional wisdom suggested it could not be won. It was the last serious road block preventing the Mongols from going into arguably the most influential empire in history.
Battle of Bun’ei (1274) and Battle of KÅan (1281)
Two massive efforts by the Mongol Empire to try and conquer Japan. Both efforts met disaster when significant ship loses happened due to unusually strong typhons allowing the Japanese to resist and defeat otherwise much larger armies.
Just to toss out a few non Euro centric battles that have greatly influenced the shape of world history.
Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com
http://www.thermopylae-online.com
the battle of kulikovo.
prince dmitri donskoi defeated a mongol army. paving the way for later russian independence. also paving the way for russia to be able to look westward towards europe.
Those are all good choices for pre-1851. How about post-1851? Nukchebi0 had a pretty good list, lets hear what others have to say. :wink:
Battle of Britain
If it had not been won by Britain the Nazis may have been able to invade Britain leading to one can assume an extremely different end of WWII
Germany would have had a horrific time trying to invade Britain anyways. Their landing craft weren’t sufficient to convey the large amounts of supplies necessary to sustain an invasion.
Polywog is right. The Somme was horrendously indecisive. I would change the Somme to Antietam, which destroyed any chance the Confederates had of winning the Civil War. Having a divided U.S. would have influenced world events greatly.
post 1865 list:
1.Stalingrad
2.Marne ( first one)
3. Dunkirk
4.Midway
5.Verdun
6.Tannenburg
7.Inchon
I forgot Tannenburg.That was pretty crucial to hastening the Russian defeat in WWI, and ushering in the revolution.
post 1851……
how about the battle at porth arthor? b/w the russians and the japanese. it showed that an asian army/navy can match a western style combination. that was crucial to geo-politics and also helped begin to pave the way for revolution in russia, the decembrists used the loss to catapult their attempted coup. ever since then, the russian tsar was just trying to hold onto power. poor nicholas.
and mech, may i add, that true your list is important for us in the west… how about battles that are more centered on maybe africa and india, china and the middle east, not forgetting s. america. there is a lot that happened there. i’ll think of some here soon.
Did any of these areas actually affect the geo-politics of the world greatly. Essentially: Would the world have been radically different with an opposite outcome?
(The second part, China, S. America ect.)
post 1865 list:
1.Stalingrad–- obvious conclusions. Nothing is bigger than this battle for deciding the wars conclusion.
2.Marne ( first one)— failure to win would have been a quick german victory in 1914 and not have caused ww2
3. Dunkirk— if the brits failed to leave intact Hitler would have immediatly invaded and captured England and ended the war.
4.Midway— The japanese would have lost one way or another but it ended the string of victorys up until then.
5.Verdun— this meat grinder was supposed to totally sap the french of soldiers to fight… but it also sapped the strength of the germans buying the allies enough time to bring in the americans.
6.Tannenburg— total reversal of the eastern front leading to collapse of imperial russia and cold war and many other things
7.Inchon— created the present day situation with N Korea
@Imperious:
post 1865 list:
1.Stalingrad–- obvious conclusions. Nothing is bigger than this battle for deciding the wars conclusion.
2.Marne ( first one)— failure to win would have been a quick german victory in 1914 and not have caused ww2
3. Dunkirk— if the brits failed to leave intact Hitler would have immediatly invaded and captured England and ended the war.
4.Midway— The japanese would have lost one way or another but it ended the string of victorys up until then.
5.Verdun— this meat grinder was supposed to totally sap the french of soldiers to fight… but it also sapped the strength of the germans buying the allies enough time to bring in the americans.
6.Tannenburg— total reversal of the eastern front leading to collapse of imperial russia and cold war and many other things
7.Inchon— created the present day situation with N Korea
Sedan in May 1940 - more important for the lack of any major fighting since the German crossing of the Meusse river nearly unopposed by large numbers of German tanks sealed the fate of the French army.
