If I’m not otherwise committed, Im more than happy to play you there. {Crazystraw, Yoper, V-Disc, and several others are on my list.}
But I’m more concerned about settling this debate now. You stated that it was easy to block. Did you have any other potential blocking moves??
If you conceed the point on London vs the fleet, then thats fine too.
Not sure what the “greg’s spring gathering” is, If it’s a FTF then it’s not likely I can be there. If you want to play online…then this is the place. If you think your strategy is a winning one then step up. I guarantee you won’t get london or merge your fleet on G2. :-D
If I’m not otherwise committed, Im more than happy to play you there. {Crazystraw, Yoper, V-Disc, and several others are on my list.}
But I’m more concerned about settling this debate now. You stated that it was easy to block. Did you have any other potential blocking moves??
If you conceed the point on London vs the fleet, then thats fine too.
Not sure what the “greg’s spring gathering” is, If it’s a FTF then it’s not likely I can be there. If you want to play online…then this is the place. If you think your strategy is a winning one then step up. I guarantee you won’t get london or merge your fleet on G2. :-D
1 - Yes, its FTF
2 - You’ve already “guaranteed” that.
3 - You asked me for my moves.
4 - I gave them, asked for your block
5 - The block that you gave cost you London.
6 - Since you have now publically boasted twice, I want to see it. Tell it to me, right now. Dont just say its unlikely that you cant meet FTF. You said it was SIMPLE and you’d tell me about it. So please put it here in black and white.
{FWIW, I said “usually” because there is one block that can be done, but which requires forsight and the absolute knowledge of the future.}
Ok first of all we are assuming the Soviets do this:
Soviets attack and take Belo and West Russia. Belo is attacked with 2 fighters and 3 men and west russia is attacked with most of the rest. Russia has protected caucasus. They bought mostly infantry but certainly didnt go heavy on tanks. For example we assume either 1) 8 infantry, 2) 3 tanks and 3 infantry, 3) 4 infantry and 3 artillery
Further we assume Soviets lost 1-2 Inf taking belo and 2-4 infantry taking west russia.
also the Soviet sub is in blocking mode against german fleet
The bid is 3-6 and no NA’s are being used.
NOW we can sort out the opening in the following terms:
Book opening= predictable and safe opening system with a clear mandate of what we are trying to accomplish while making a predictable line of play.
Gambit= you are deliberatly making a calculated risk assesment and leaving a ‘hole’ in your position in order to gain some advantage in another area. Thus you give up in one area of your opening so gain an advantage in another.
Cheapo= this is when you open a line of play that relies on luck elements to pull off an acute advantage ( e.g many attacks at long odds but with a big pay off, or channel dash option, or sealion)
Desperado= The ultimate risk taker. Something that if you fail will quickly lead to your downfall ( e.g. going for rockets)
Ill try to come up with a 5th option closer to safe play option but i dont have a name for it.
Eventually Illcolor coordinate these into types of openings into colors Green, Yellow, orange, red
Now we have not gotten into the german attacks but depending on the style of opening will dictate in some cases what is attacked.
But i have looked at the odds and come up with these attacks for Germany:
Gibrater UK BB is attacked with: 1 sub, 1 bomber, 3 fighters Reasoning: we want not to lose a plane and need 2 hits in first round.
Uk Destroyer off egypt attacked with: 1 BB, 1 transport, 1 fighter Reasoning: you will get one hit and BB will take a hit ( not losing anything)
Attack egypt with tank and inf from lybia and land 2 infantry from transport, plus bring in 2 fighters. You can also pick up one tank and one infantry instead of 2 infantry, but you may run into losing 3 units which will dig into the tanks which many have been lost courtesy of the Soviets on R1.
In Russia the attacks will be done w/o plane support and are largely dependant on what the Russian player has lost, generally youll take back Belo, and also kar… trying to hold Ukr.
Now how exactly does this channel dash thing work? How is it a viable option on G1 or G2?
Sealion is not possible with a bid of zero or 3. I have only seen it work with a bid of 8. If UK buys a fleet how then can G2 be a decent plan for channel dash?
I do see the merits of such a plan but i dont see how they get away with it against a decent Uk player. its certainly not w/o major risks of failure.
@Imperious:
Ok first of all we are assuming the Soviets do this:
.
I havent always agreed with Crazystraw. Over time, I’ve come to respect him. But just like I’ve said to you, (and him) writing a “paper” on this stuff will only bring problems. You will be misleading people, as your assumptions about the best/risky moves would be flawed. The moves listed will contain many assumptions, many of which could be wrong and countered.
By your own admission, you dont understand Crazy’s “channel” moves. It seems to me you should read those papers. But even then, you are going to be hard pressed to come up with a comprehensive paper of any sort which will definitavely answer what is best. Because what is best varies based upon those too many factors I’ve said before.
I dont want to see you fruitlessly waste your time. Which is what this project will ultimately be.
If I’m not otherwise committed, Im more than happy to play you there. {Crazystraw, Yoper, V-Disc, and several others are on my list.}
But I’m more concerned about settling this debate now. You stated that it was easy to block. Did you have any other potential blocking moves??
If you conceed the point on London vs the fleet, then thats fine too.
Not sure what the “greg’s spring gathering” is, If it’s a FTF then it’s not likely I can be there. If you want to play online…then this is the place. If you think your strategy is a winning one then step up. I guarantee you won’t get london or merge your fleet on G2. :-D
1 - Yes, its FTF
2 - You’ve already “guaranteed” that.
3 - You asked me for my moves.
4 - I gave them, asked for your block
5 - The block that you gave cost you London.
6 - Since you have now publically boasted twice, I want to see it. Tell it to me, right now. Dont just say its unlikely that you cant meet FTF. You said it was SIMPLE and you’d tell me about it. So please put it here in black and white.
{FWIW, I said “usually” because there is one block that can be done, but which requires forsight and the absolute knowledge of the future.}
Then let’s settle it here and now, online. I’ll set up the thread. LHTR, No Tech, No NA’s.
Then let’s settle it here and now, online. I’ll set up the thread. LHTR, No Tech, No NA’s.
No dude. I gave you the moves. You said you had a simple counter. Post the counter, like you said you could.
If its so simple, what’s stopping you???
Because as several folks have said, there are too many assumptions relative to that move.
It has to be seen in total strategic context in order to properly evaluate it. The North Sea is not a vacuum, nor can a strat in it be tested in a vacuum.
@Imperious:
Considering that the Soviets attack/conquer west russia and belorussia as part of their standard opening i have been tinkering with the solution to solve what would be the best thing for germany on turn one. Many people buy that carrier and 8 infantry on G1, but i am thinking about other choices.
A battleship would cost 24 IPC which takes 2 hits and can use its attack for shore bombardment against western E, Finland, and Leningrad. This can pay for the extra cost in a few turns. The planes would be freed up to help defend more vital areas. In the long run its probably not a good idea to use planes to defend the fleet. Also if the allies attacked this fleet and things went bad you can take the battleship as a loss and save another piece that would otherwise be sunk.
buy two destroyers which give you two threes and keep your fighters used for land defence and out of harms way.
ignore the baltic fleet and wait and see buying only land units unless UK moves her ships in for the kill.
try to leave the baltic and join the fleet in the medd–- “The channel dash”
which if these plans do you favor and why. My intention is to make a strategy guide with all the standard plays for each player.
Destroyers boo. Rationale, destroyers are totally useless in the ground war against Russia, and building navy like that forces Germany to race UK and US for navy.
Rest OK, a bit tricky for some but sound.
The option of 1-2 TRNs for the Baltic on G1 has been left out I notice…
@ncscswitch:
Because as several folks have said, there are too many assumptions relative to that move.
It has to be seen in total strategic context in order to properly evaluate it. The North Sea is not a vacuum, nor can a strat in it be tested in a vacuum.
Dont answer for him Switch.
HE said it was simple.
HE said if I posted my buy and told him where the units were, he could easily show me the block.
Both of his posted blocks cost him London.
If you boast that you can post a simple move, then do so. Or otherwise, respectfully, keep your mouth shut.
I only posted because I myself have fallen victim to the vacuum strat discussion before. It is not a valid or viable means of discussing a strat.
Then let’s settle it here and now, online. I’ll set up the thread. LHTR, No Tech, No NA’s.
No dude. I gave you the moves. You said you had a simple counter. Post the counter, like you said you could.
If its so simple, what’s stopping you???
Typical bully, when confronted you back down. If you’re so convinced that you’re right why not prove it. The thread is open, or are you not man enough to stand up to a challenge?
Squirecam: You must have some hope for a better tomorrow.
Additionally you seem to get into fights with other posters and this is not tolerated.
When i put my mind to something the final product will be to the benifit of others and it will be something that will be substantial.
I’m sorry you have poor experiences with lessor sites with all those rearguard swines at AH forums. Over here we create inclusionary ideas and projects that allow everybody a voice. Under this project i will assemble many plausible ideas from many peoples contribution and create ideas that are more or less extrapolated and explained out so its clear to everyone what the idea of the strategy would be given a flow chart of numourous plans. These ideas are not my definitive evaluation but plausible ideas each with some merit. However the context and discovery of these ideas would be ‘discovered’ under some Socratic method because i believe that the truth is something inside the individual and i have merely to ask enough questions to arrive at the truth.
“I haven’t always agreed with Crazystraw. Over time, I’ve come to respect him. But just like I’ve said to you, (and him) writing a “paper” on this stuff will only bring problems. You will be misleading people, as your assumptions about the best/risky moves would be flawed. The moves listed will contain many assumptions, many of which could be wrong and countered.”
I dont understand how i am misleading people? I take it you really dont understand what im doing? AS i have explained I will illustrate some opening systems explaining what the plan is and why and how it could work. Its up to the reader to come up with his own assesment. But its a decent starting point to illustrate these different plans.
“By your own admission, you don’t understand Crazy’s “channel” moves. It seems to me you should read those papers. But even then, you are going to be hard pressed to come up with a comprehensive paper of any sort which will definitively answer what is best. Because what is best varies based upon those too many factors I’ve said before.”
You are making a incorrect assumption Its not my job to tell people what to play. Its my job in this to demonstrate the different ideas and explore each of them so people can make up their own mind on what to play. Thats why they make “strategy guides”
Also i dont know why you keep bringing up Crazy straw… where does he come up in this evaluation? He is not the only proponent of the channel dash. Caspian sub ideas are very basic by their own admission.
“I don’t want to see you fruitlessly waste your time. Which is what this project will ultimately be.”
It will be great because i will make it so. Dont worry about a thing. Don Rae was not a waste. he clarified many ideas and made patterns so it would be easy to see ideas. I will do the same thing.
The more you bug me the more great ill make this just to spite you and make you eat your words eventually. My ambition has no boundries and is often reinforced by people who say “i cant do it”
You know me too well to know any different.
As far as the channel dash is concerned somebody who believes in it tell us exactly how you do it.
another person can play UK/ USA and demonstrate how he counters this.
Thats way we all see the how and why.
I suspect JSP would like to participate and possible Squirecam or ncscswitch or even Crazy Straw himself?
I am not likely to be Germany for the Cahnnel Dash demo.
I am in JSP’s corner in terms of ability to block/thwart it (which is the one major argument CS and I have had on these forums).
LOL! you allready made a name for it. “Channel Dash Demo” or CDD
:-D
The facts are pretty simple in terms of a Channel Dash, or a Sea Lion attempt…
If Germany invests heavilly in navy, so will UK, and the US will move to reinforce London. Yes, it will cost UK income in Africa, but the Russians will counter in Central Europe and the German Navy ends up as scenery in the fish kingdom a round or 2 later.
The ONLY way that those two moves work is if they are done somewhat covertly (minor navy buys) and with an Allied player who fails to see the risk.
And THAT my friends is why I inquired about why the 1-2 TRN purchase on G1 was not listed in the potential G1 buys above.
I would build 2 trn, 1 bb or no navy at all.
Well Sealion or the perception of sealion is on the table.
So given the low bid and no NA and what Soviets do. YOu still go for it?
Then the builds are what? 2 transports and 24IPC in land ( say 4 inf and 3 art)?
On G2 everything moves and how does UK counter it?
IL, I think the idea of a strategy guide is terrific. I don’t envision its creation or my eventually reading it as being fruitless.
One of the first things someone said to me by way of advice when I was learning to play A&A (Classic) is, “Germany doesn’t get a navy.” He was sinking it at the time.
