How often do you purchase new AAA?

[Wolfshanze]

Just curious what folks think of AAA in the game… you buy a lot, a few, some, none?  What are your thoughts on AAA in Axis and Allies and its importance (or lack there-of) in the game?

[taamvan]

If you wanted to make it different such that people might have a reason to buy it for 5, I would suggest that instead of first striking planes, it fires at planes 1 time per gun, per round of combat.  Defender chooses the casualty.  Otherwise, they are simply lost as casualties, so they usually only have a 1 time effect.

Otherwise, there isn’t any good reason to purchase these, the numbers you have at game start (4-6) neatly match the numbers of stacked planes you will see in endgame battle (12-18 per combat)

[SubmersedElk]

I’ve thought about buying AAA a couple of times over the course of a hundred plus games, and that’s as close as I’ve gotten to actually doing it.

If I’m really on my game I remember to move them in noncombat.

[General Veers]

The player that is best suited to buying AAA is Germany since they can be plopped directly on Normandy and Southern France, but since the common defensive strategy is to launch a counteroffensive from Paris there’s no point.

Could an extra AAA or two in addition to starting ones help swing the Moscow battle for Russia? Have to consider the opportunity cost of fewer infantry.

[cyanight]

In very long games I have seen them purchased in the Middle East and Egypt to protect from the massive Luftwaffe.

[Witt]

As Cyanight said, I buy them for  the English to safeguard the ME against those nasty Hun.

[SubmersedElk]

@General:

The player that is best suited to buying AAA is Germany since they can be plopped directly on Normandy and Southern France, but since the common defensive strategy is to launch a counteroffensive from Paris there’s no point.

Could an extra AAA or two in addition to starting ones help swing the Moscow battle for Russia? Have to consider the opportunity cost of fewer infantry.

nope an extra inf is more valuable every time

[Young Grasshopper]

This might not help get more into the games, but a universal across the board discount on AA artillery should be in order… 4 IPCs I would say.

On the other hand, I kinda always thought that to many more than what was in the setup could be unbalanced.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

I sometimes buy them for a known raid against Moscow or London when the calculator suggests a better final outcome.  If the attacker has any choice to use the planes elsewhere or skip the attack, buying a AAA does not make sense.

[MarshmallowofWar]

@SubmersedElk:

nope an extra inf is more valuable every time

This.

Marsh

[MarshmallowofWar]

@Young:

This might not help get more into the games, but a universal across the board discount on AA artillery should be in order… 4 IPCs I would say.

4 is reasonable – I might buy at 4. Alternately, if movement were increased to two, I might also buy them.

Marsh

[ChocolatePancake]

Yeah, they’re are pretty rare purchase. On some occasions, like when you know India or Moscow is about to fall, and the axis have to bring air power in to take them, it is often worth purchasing some AAA to try and get some lucky plane hits.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

I am glad that they cost 5 IPCs to build.  AAAs add a considerable amount of random luck to the big battles.  I have had a final attack on Moscow fail because of incredible dice rolling.  The AAAs shot down 8 out of 10 Japanese planes that went in for a suicide blitz.  I still had a 99% chance for a German victory but again ridiculous AAA accuracy led to ultimate failure.  If I didn’t roll the dice myself, I would be suspecting the opponent of cheating…

Likewise, I have seen opponents get so upset that the AAAs never hit that they quit the game.  When they get zero hits in 20 rolls (3% likelihood), they curse more loudly than a failed G1 attack on Paris.  Low luck solves the randomness, but I hate games where you can precisely dial in an attack force to guarantee victory at minimal loss.

[Nippon-koku]

@SubmersedElk:

nope an extra inf is more valuable every time

I’m usually on board with you Elk, but I disagree with this one.

Let’s say Japan is clearly going to attack India next turn, and let’s say India has 5 IPC to spend (a scenario that is actually not too far out there).  I’ll always take the extra AA gun in that case (assuming Japan would be coming with enough planes to get an extra three shots).

I’m usually in favor of getting India at least 1 extra AA gun.

[simon33]

@Arthur:

Likewise, I have seen opponents get so upset that the AAAs never hit that they quit the game.  When they get zero hits in 20 rolls (3% likelihood), they curse more loudly than a failed G1 attack on Paris.  Low luck solves the randomness, but I hate games where you can precisely dial in an attack force to guarantee victory at minimal loss.

Probably why low luck for anti air only is an option in Triple-A.

[Young Grasshopper]

So what would the odds be if 3 AA Guns were 1@2 each with 9 air units attacking?

[baron Münchhausen]

@Young:

So what would the odds be if 3 AA Guns were 1@2 each with 9 air units attacking?

So with only 3 defense @2 you get:
On average 45% of shooting down 1 plane.

http://calc.axisandallies.org/?mustland=0&abortratio=0&saveunits=0&strafeunits=0&aInf=&aArt=&aArm=&aFig=9&aBom=&aTra=&aSub=&aDes=&aCru=&aCar=&aBat=&adBat=&dInf=&dArt=3&dArm=&dFig=&dBom=&dTra=&dSub=&dDes=&dCru=&dCar=&dBat=&ddBat=&ool_att=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Sub-SSub-Des-Fig-JFig-Cru-Bom-HBom-Car-dBat-Tra&ool_def=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Bom-HBom-Sub-SSub-Des-Car-Cru-Fig-JFig-dBat-Tra&battle=Run&rounds=1&reps=10000&luck=pure&ruleset=AA1942&territory=&round=1&pbem=

With 9 defense @2 you get:
On average 28% of shooting down 3 Fgs.

http://calc.axisandallies.org/?mustland=0&abortratio=0&saveunits=0&strafeunits=0&aInf=&aArt=&aArm=&aFig=9&aBom=&aTra=&aSub=&aDes=&aCru=&aCar=&aBat=&adBat=&dInf=&dArt=9&dArm=&dFig=&dBom=&dTra=&dSub=&dDes=&dCru=&dCar=&dBat=&ddBat=&ool_att=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Sub-SSub-Des-Fig-JFig-Cru-Bom-HBom-Car-dBat-Tra&ool_def=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Bom-HBom-Sub-SSub-Des-Car-Cru-Fig-JFig-dBat-Tra&battle=Run&rounds=1&reps=10000&luck=pure&ruleset=AA1942&territory=&round=1&pbem=

[Young Grasshopper]

What are odds of 3 AA Guns with 9 air units using oob rules?

[simon33]

35% of shooting one down.

http://calc.axisandallies.org/?mustland=0&abortratio=0&saveunits=0&strafeunits=0&aInf=&aArt=&aArm=&aFig=9&aBom=&aTra=&aSub=&aDes=&aCru=&aCar=&aBat=&adBat=&dInf=&dArt=&dArm=&dFig=&dBom=9&dTra=&dSub=&dDes=&dCru=&dCar=&dBat=&ddBat=&ool_att=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Sub-SSub-Des-Fig-JFig-Cru-Bom-HBom-Car-dBat-Tra&ool_def=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Bom-HBom-Sub-SSub-Des-Car-Cru-Fig-JFig-dBat-Tra&battle=Run&rounds=1&reps=10000&luck=pure&ruleset=AA1942&territory=&round=1&pbem=

[Young Grasshopper]

So if each gun’s defense value was modified to 1@2… they would be slightly better units than they are now.