@general-5-stars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq9hEmdJIno
America at War
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I think your 12 die chart is to strong. 6. should be 6 icp’s. 10,11,12 are to strong. If you use the carry over die I’d only have it where you can only carry over 1 turn. Then I’d change around your more stronger pieces up the chart to lower numbers so everybody just doesn’t pick on first turn and wait till 2nd turn.
I’d didn’t want to put any thing on chart that was over 12 icp’s and not make it to strong.
I’m not going to reply to this post no more. I feel its going off YG’s topic. If you want to discuss further start a new post and discussion can continue if you want.
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I don’t believe this is off topic at all. He is proposing a rules addition to the game, and I am just putting in my oppinion on it and suggestion.
I’m not sure you read the rules I added to the 12 number chart. I did state that you can only carry over 1 turn. The point I wanted to make is to give the player to ability to get lucky, as well as give them more incentive to carry over their roll. I will revise it a little to give more incentive
If you roll a 3 or 4 the first turn the values are
3 = Sub, which is worth 6 IPC’s
4 = Transport which is worth 7 IPC’sIf you were to roll 2 dice 36 times the number of times each number comes up is:
Dice total Number of Probability Total Unit Unit Value Times
Combinations Value Probability2 1 2.78% 6 .1668
3 2 5.56% 6 .3336
4 3 8.33% 7 .5831
5 4 11.11% 8 .8888
6 5 13.89% 8 1.1104
7 6 16.67% 10 1.667
8 5 13.89% 12 1.6668
9 4 11.11% 12 1.3332
10 3 8.33% 16 1.3328
11 2 5.56% 20 1.112
12 1 2.78% 30 .834Totals 36 100% 135 11.0285
The average Unit Value you will get when rolling 1 dice is 6.334 and 2 dice is 11.0285. You’re right it doesn’t really seem incredibly worth it to go for the second roll. Maybe if we add in art at 2 and took out “get 8 IPC’s to spend immediately” at 6 and then moved everyone up accordingly it would be better. so a chart like:
1 = Infantry
2 = Art
3 = Tank
4 = Sub
5 = Transport
6 = Destroyer
7 = Fighter
8 = Strategic bomber
9 = Cruiser
10 = Carrier
11 = Battleship
12 = “Get 1 of each unit from numbers 1-5” (in other words you get an Infantry, Tank, Sub, Transport, and Destroyer)With this chart if you roll 1 dice you get an average Unit Value of 5.667. If you roll two dice you get an average Unit Value of 10.7866.
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This is definitely an idea that could have many hybrids… any discussion that revolves around the concept of America or any nation getting a free unit from a die roll is welcome. My first post rule discription is in line with the needs of our gaming group, so that won’t change for now.
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@ ROCmonster
Great posts, love your analytical break downs… when we think of American factory output during the war, how can we not include strategic bombers on a list like this?.. cruisers were more one and done compared to the amount of bombers being produced. Also, I structured the list so that theoretically, the higher the roll, the better the unit. Personally, anything on the list would be helpful for the United States, but one unit has to be the least desirable and one has to be the cherry on top. Along the path of developing this mechanic, I realized that we have to be carefull not to be unfair to the Axis by handing the Allies big units with lucky rolls, but we also have to take into account how much America is behind the 8 ball.
I did however, take your advice and changed the phase in which the die roll is made.
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@Young:
when we think of American factory output during the war, how can we not include strategic bombers on a list like this?… cruisers were more one and done compared to the amount of bombers being produced. Also, I structured the list so that theoretically, the higher the roll, the better the unit. Personally, anything on the list would be helpful for the United States, but one unit has to be the least desirable and one has to be the cherry on top. Along the path of developing this mechanic, I realized that we have to be carefull not to be unfair to the Axis by handing the Allies big units with lucky rolls, but we also have to take into account how much America is behind the 8 ball.
Well said. :)
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@Young:
American Mass Production
During each purchase new units phase in which the United States are at war, they may roll 1 die to obtain a free unit.
Die Roll = Free Unit
1 = Tank
2 = Submarine
3 = Transport
4 = Destroyer
5 = Fighter
6 = Strategic BomberI like the free unit.
But the odds is the same for each unit to get it.
You should have an alternate distribution from 2 to 12 by rolling 2 dices.
That way you can predict which unit is average gift and which one is cherry on top.
It can include Artillery and MI and Tactical Bomber and Cruiser and a combination of units. -
Ok fine. I’m done posting any more suggestions to any game piece or any other discussions.
Seems my suggestions always get shut down. The funny thing is that all these new suggestions and added pieces to 40 game are and have been in my 39 games for years.So every thing is cool. :wink:
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@SS:
I like your idea to YG. I would like to see it like this.
1. Tank
2. Sub
3. Transport
4. Destroyer
5. Fighter
6. Strategic Bomber
7. Inf
8. AA Gun
9. Mech
10. Marine or Airborne
11. Artillery
12. CruiserYou could roll 2 D6 dice and add up and take away the 1 Tank and replace the AA gun with Tank or roll a D12.
For 1940 Global, using 2 dice, and using an odds configuration as BM mentioned… I would adjust your list like so…
2. Cruiser
3. Fighter
4. Transport
5. Tank
6. Mech Infantry
7. Infantry
8. Artillery
9. Submarine
10. Destroyer
11.Tactical Bomber
12. Strategic Bomber -
So I made the above 12 unit chart the default option in the first post.
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My only question with the 7 spot, should I replace infantry with AA gun? I wanted the rule to represent factory production and infantry feels like a recruiting campaign… or maybe it doesn’t mater.
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The only problem with your list Young Grasshopper is that 55% of the time you are getting someone “bad”. The only good numbers are 2-4 and 9-12. The US needs ships/planes early-mid game only, so 55% of the time you get a ground unit on your roll that doesn’t really do anything until too late in the game to matter. That is why I wanted to try and limit the possibility of US getting a ground unit as their roll.
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The only problem with your list Young Grasshopper is that 55% of the time you are getting someone “bad”. The only good numbers are 2-4 and 9-12. The US needs ships/planes early-mid game only, so 55% of the time you get a ground unit on your roll that doesn’t really do anything until too late in the game to matter. That is why I wanted to try and limit the possibility of US getting a ground unit as their roll.
What about this option? I really like it…
During each “Purchase New Units” phase in which they are at war, the United States may roll 1 die on chart #1 to receive a free unit.
Chart #1
1 = Artillery
2 = Tank
3 = Submarine
4 = Transport
5 = Destroyer
6 = Roll on chart #2Chart #2
1 = Fighter
2 = Tactical Bomber
3 = Cruiser
4 = Strategic Bomber
5 = Aircraft Carrier
6 = Battleship -
My group doesn’t feel that it’s necessary to hand the US an aircraft carrier or battleship at any time during the game, and I agreed… here’s our new list.
American Wartime Production
During each “Purchase New Units” phase in which they are at war, the United States may roll 1 die on chart #1 to receive a free unit.
Chart #1
1 = Artillery
2 = Tank
3 = Submarine
4 = Transport
5 = Destroyer
6 = Roll on chart #2Chart #2
1 = 3X Infantry
2 = Fighter
3 = Tactical Bomber
4 = Cruiser
5 = Strategic Bomber
6 = Facility -
The only problem with your list Young Grasshopper is that 55% of the time you are getting someone “bad”. The only good numbers are 2-4 and 9-12. The US needs ships/planes early-mid game only, so 55% of the time you get a ground unit on your roll that doesn’t really do anything until too late in the game to matter. That is why I wanted to try and limit the possibility of US getting a ground unit as their roll.
If you said truth.
IMO, Instead of 1-3x Infantry, this can become 2 Submarines.
Or 1 TP and 1 Submarine.
Or 2 TPs.I’m thinking about USA Libertyship mass production here.
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@Young:
My group doesn’t feel that it’s necessary to hand the US an aircraft carrier or battleship at any time during the game, and I agreed… here’s our new list.
American Wartime Production
During each “Purchase New Units” phase in which they are at war, the United States may roll 1 die on chart #1 to receive a free unit.
Chart #1
1 = Artillery
2 = Tank
3 = Submarine
4 = Transport
5 = Destroyer
6 = Roll on chart #2Chart #2
1 = 3X Infantry
2 = Fighter
3 = Tactical Bomber
4 = Cruiser
5 = Strategic Bomber
6 = FacilityI agree. I’d never play with my proposed rules because giving America a free BB and the other big one on my list is probably too much. I like your idea of getting a free unit, but the problem is the only valuable units America can get are ships and planes, and their IPC cost is too much to just hand them out for free. That is why I liked your idea of giving US war bonds tech when at war. Much smoother system overall, and fairer. This current system almost feels like how tech is right now, and why no one competitive plays with tech. When you miss with tech it is a huge loss, but when you hit it is a massive gain. If you roll an infantry, art, mech, tank it feels like missing with a tech roll. When you get a ship/plane it feels amazing. The problem with tech, and this as well, is that when you are rolling good on your tech/chart it almost wins you the game if two players are of roughly the same skill level, whereas if you are rolling bad not hitting tech or the right unit on the chart consistently just looses you the game regardless of skill.
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Perhaps this is more consistent with your perception…
America at War
From game round 3-9, the United States will receive a free unit according to the list below.
Round 3 = Submarine
Round 4 = Transport
Round 5 = Destroyer
Round 6 = Fighter
Round 7 = Tac bomber
Round 8 = Cruiser
Round 9 = Strategic Bomber -
@Young:
Perhaps this is more consistent with your perception…
America at War
From game round 3-9, the United States will receive a free unit according to the list below.
Round 3 = Submarine
Round 4 = Transport
Round 5 = Destroyer
Round 6 = Fighter
Round 7 = Tac bomber
Round 8 = Cruiser
Round 9 = Strategic BomberI’d add a round 1 and 2.
Round 1 = 1 Infantry
Round 2 = 2 Infantry -
I think I have a better idea…
America at War
During each “Purchase New Units” phase in which they are at war, the United States may roll 1 die on the chart below to receive a free unit. A unit may not be taken if already claimed in a previous round, instead the US player must continue rolling for a unit that has not yet been received.
1 = Submarine
2 = Transport
3 = Destroyer
4 = Fighter
5 = Tactical bomber
6 = Strategic Bomber -
YG is on to something overall here I think.Thus does add more variety and excitement to playing the USA. This doesn’t feel like the tech rule, in that the USA isn’t expending any resources to gain a free unit. In regards to the USA receiving units for free that may be to powerful, I believe that chance should exist, because the arsenal of democracy churned out a lot of hardware during that war. Like your said YG, the USA does start a bit behind the 8 ball.
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YG is on to something overall here I think.Thus does add more variety and excitement to playing the USA. This doesn’t feel like the tech rule, in that the USA isn’t expending any resources to gain a free unit. In regards to the USA receiving units for free that may be to powerful, I believe that chance should exist, because the arsenal of democracy churned out a lot of hardware during that war. Like your said YG, the USA does start a bit behind the 8 ball.
I think it’s important to have both an element of consistency as well as luck, and I feel that the latest version of this idea accomplishes that. Here you are guranteed to get 6 free units in any game that last a least 9 rounds, and there are fewer variables to test…. when is the US brought into the war? and what is the order in which those 6 units are received?. This should go a long way to giving the Americans the help they need, without causing unbalanced results with extreme luck. Also, the total amount given to the Americans over the course of a game would be equal to a bid of 54 IPCs for the Allies.
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