Best way to sneak up on UK

[Guest]

@DarthMaximus:

I think you see where I’m coming from though, if US buys AC/air and can take out the G fleet (basically a wash in units), is it then worth it for the Germans to do so or is there a way to get even more out of their fleet.

Heh.  That IS the question.

The problem I have is that if the Germans don’t buy boats, what do the Allies do?

R1 UK buys 3tra.  Most players pop Baltic as Switch and I mentioned before.
R1 US buys maybe 2inf 2tnk 1car 1tra for Africa or 6inf 1tra 1car for EuroShuck.

R2 Both Allies go to Africa (or Norway)
All Europe from there on

So from R1 the Allies max production and can land troops in Africa early.  The Germans won’t be able to take out Allied transports cheaply at any time.

Heck, if you build no Baltic boats and you don’t take Gibraltar, in many instances I might go to Algeria R1.

So it’s not that the united fleet is unbeatable; it’s that the Allies are ON Germany very quickly if you don’t build some navy.

By spending 24 on boats:
1. Allies spend a lot more than that in the water
2. UK doesn’t build transports until R3 (R1 naval offense, R2 naval defense, R3 tra - this is simplified, of course)
3. You leverage the IPCs you already have in the water
4. You set up cascade failure points if the battles go favorably
5. You hold German revenue longer

Cons:
1. You’re down 8inf vs. Russia.

But the con is offset by the delay against UK/US.  Units that would have been in Western can move East instead, so it’s largely a wash on the land.

Peace

[nooob]

if germany is gonna spent 24ipc’s on 3trs on r1 why not make it 32 and go for acarrier and 2trns?

proceed with the fleet merger threat and then hold the allies off even longer…

the senarios described basically force a kgf anways…if kjf is tried the tnrs will help expediate the movement of r2 purchases through karielia and the transports can STILL be filled on g2 with the units in WE and left over cash.

[ezto]

okok, Best way to sneak up on the UK is to get your tanks to Moscow.

[Guest]

@ezto:

okok, Best way to sneak up on the UK is to get your tanks to Moscow.

Sweeeeet!

The “sneak” attack is done by systematically killing their friends first, right in front of their eyes.  Ballsy.  I like it!

noob: Good question.  The problem with buying more navy, however, is that while you may slow down UK/US a little more, the Russians will charge in.  The goal is to have a lean, efficient naval counter, because if you don’t the East will fall fast.

Maybe 32 is too much.  Maybe 16 is too little.  I think the sweet spot is somewhere between 8-24, and it may depend on what Russia does on their turn.  Where are the fighters?  Did he move toward India?  Did he buy offense or defense?  Did he stand in BUR?  Etc.

Peace

[DarthMaximus]

I go Egy heavy (with intent to hold), meaning 2 units bid to Lib with 2 more tranported there + ftr and bom in attack on G1

G2 - Trj is taken and Afr is blitzed

G3 - Germany possibly take India (with Japan to defend) or go to Mad then head to Aus/NZ and Hi

The Allies still need to protect ships in SZ 8 and 5 (or 6) and once you get to rd 3-5 Japan should be able to get 5-6 planes to Europe.

Now the Allies need to worry about a 1-2 with 10-14 planes on one of their fleets.

Plus once the Allies get to Egy (with the rd 1 landing), Japan can always threaten a landing.  Certainly by rd 4 Japan can seriously threaten to back up Afr while they push troops on toward Mos.  You don’t need to necessarily land in Afr, just threaten the landing with ships in Fic sz.

This is a lot of what-ifs and stuff but I build up for a run in say rds 4-8 with both Ger and Japan trying to take either Ukr and Kaz at the same time forcing Russia out of Cauc.  Although I’d perfer to take Wrus and Kaz.

I don’t think the Allies can crack Europe in the first 4-5 rds if Germany goes ground heavy.  You can even deadzone WE or EE if you must and try and guide the Allies to where you wan them to land.

Provided you did well in Afr on rds 1-3,4.

I’ve found myself having trouble when I go AC for Germany or other ships.  I always get to the point of “man, I wish I had just a few more inf/arm…”

[Guest]

Darth, quite interesting.

1. What did you do with the UK in IND?  It seems like your Germans should get harassed a bit more than that…

2. Mid game, say R4+, Allies ought to have 2btl in their forward fleet.  The rear fleet bounces between Z01 and Z02, out of range of fighters.  The forward fleet has about 2btl 2des 1car 2ftr and some serious fodder.  I don’t think you ought to be able to rotate air forces on them to do major damage.

For instance, if you have 6ftr 1bmr from Germany, R4+ the Allied forward fleet would have something like:
7tra 1sub (Rus) 2des 1car 2btl (WUS) 2ftr : dPunch = 32 dHits = 5.

That’s brutal.  Brutal.  Go 1rnd: If you get 4hits with the Germans, that’s 1tra 1sub 2btw (wounded btl).  The Germans then lose 5ftr.  If you pull back, the btl recharge.  Once planes start dying, the Allies can take des as casualties.  Japan won’t get more than a couple of transports and the destroyers.  And the air threat is gone.

We must set this up rather differently.  Do some more 'splainin.

(I’ll be AFK for a while)

[DarthMaximus]

The combined airforce is more of a paper tiger, just to insure the Allies aren’t getting sloopy or venture too far into the Med.

If the Allies want to stay heavy in Sz 6 or something, yeah can’t do much, but if they move they have to make sure they coordinate well or Japan could take a shot at the UK fleet when it moves (provided #of trns etc.)  sometimes the threat is enough to keep the ships north.

As Japan I go China heavy (7 inf + planes) and Pearl Heavy.
So UK does me a favor when the walk 1 inf into Fic on UK 2 and another if they keep an inf in Trj after UK 1.  Both are toast.  That leaves like 2 left, maybe 3??

Japan strafe with 1-2 inf and ftrs or rely on the Ger BB, 1 inf, 1 arm 1 bom to take out the 2 inf.

More than likely though the Brits will retreat to Per prior to Round 3 making Ind a walk-in for Ger.

And if Japan takes Ind that is okay too, then Germany goes Mad, Aus, NZ, then Hi.  Again Japan can soften Aus up with 1 inf and 2 bb-shots if UK left 3 inf.  Which equals 5 IPC that are not likely to be retaken any time soon and require no defense.

[newpaintbrush]

You remember that earlier post I made, where I mentioned consolidating the Allied fleet out of range of the German navy and/or airforce while threatening the seazone off Western Europe?  Oh yeah, maybe not, because I didn’t say that in so many words.

Basically -

1.  Allied navy stays away from German navy initially, forces Germany to attack with navy.  If Germany does not oblige, the Allies either go north to the Baltic and set up Norway/Karelia/E. Eur, OR the Allies go south to the Med.  A single German fleet CAN NOT cover both if the Allies have a good-sized air force.  (If the German navy DOES stay in range of both Baltic and Med, the Allies can attack the German navy with Allied fleet and Allied air, which ends well for the Allies)

2.  If Germany STILL avoids a confrontation, the Allies build up air.  Fighters help a lot when trading territory with Germany.  They can also be used to help defend Moscow.  They can also be used to kill German naval units.  The Allied attack IS slowed by the German navy, but although the punch comes later, it comes much harder, and with much more Allied flexibility, with those Allied fighters available.

I probably will not try to stop the Germans from uniting their fleet, but I will try to pose a counterthreat (as posted earlier), that can force the Germans either to abandon uniting their fleet, or to risk losing that combined fleet immediately (although at heavy cost to the Allies).

[Jennifer]

I always wanted to try a full naval build for germany round 1.  2 Transports, 2 Destroyers or 3 Transports, AC. (I feel the AC is mostly superfulous because you already have your fighters in the neighborhood, Carriers attack worse then infantry (at least you get lotsa meat shileds together, you gunna mass carriers???) and 2 destroyers make a significant punch on both attack and defense when combined with starting units Germany already has.)

Potential:  4 Transports, 3 Submarines, 3 Destroyers, 1 Battleship.  or 5 Transports, 3 Submarines, 1 Destroyer, 1 Aircraft Carrier, 2 Fighters (no longer defending mainland), 1 Battleship.

Pull back on the front lines, let Russia extend in, then push back now that Russia is all by herself.

[Guest]

I have debated the MASS KREIGSMARINE myself, but with a slightly different configuration…

Building in the Med…
1 AC, 2 TRN (balance land forces)

Sail the Baltic Fleet to SZ7 on G1 (UK either attacks or not, and hopefully does damage along the way)
And do the BB strike w/ just SUB and FIGs in SZ13
Shuttle troops to Libya on G1.

Germany has a nice force load in Africa for G2, and a VERY strong fleet in SZ14 (1 BB, 1 AC, 3 TRN, 2 FIG) if the Allies try to land in Algeria on T1.

Kinda discourages that Algeria T1 landing thing, makes Africa almost sure to be German, give Russia something scary to consider for defense of Caucuses, and of course one hell of a fleet to go sailing into either the Indian or Atlantic oceans at will…

[ezto]

Kriegsmarine is there to kill enemy fightrs when its getting attacked.

[Jennifer]

If the Baltic fleet moves to SZ 7 how do you expect to do any real damage?

2 Transport, 1 Battleship, 1 Bomber, 2 FIghters vs 2 Submarines, 1 Transport, 1 Destroyer.

Attack: 14
Defender: 8

You might damage the Battleship and maybe take out a transport (though I’d be liable to take the bomber so I have that extra 1 transport for fodder against the german luftwaffe who will not have to counter 1 battleship, 1 aircraft carrier, 1 russian submarine, 1 destroyer, 2 transports and 2 fighters)

[Deaths Head 420]

the best way to do OP. sea lion is to get your allied friends high then tell them you want 32 IPC to place on board b4 game starts. JK

[Guest]

That would probably work, but I think trippin would be better for it than high (though getting trippin folks to concentrate on a board game could be difficult since it lacks moving parts… ceiling fans though are endless entertainment for trippin folks…)