interesting topic shift people
merry CHRISTmas (day of birth is irrelevant, the message of salvation and forgiveness is)
Forgiveness is a great virtue.
However, my position is that salvation is also irrelevant. Whatever I have that might be termed a soul is coterminous with my body - when the body dies, so does everything non-material about me. Just as if you dropped a hard drive into molten lava, the data does not get magically transported to some alternate dimension. My brain will only be so much grey pudding, containing not even A&A strategy anymore.
If I did believe in a soul, I’d still be somewhat offended at the suggestion that it needed saving.
Unless you believe in the kind of vain, self focused God such as Piers Anthony describes in the Incarnations of Immortality series, then the entire concept of a soul needing saved is ridiculous… what “loving and forgiving” God is going to condemn 80%+ of the humans to eternal damnation just for the hell of it?
you both miss the point but merry christmas anyway :mrgreen:
And a blessed Winter Solstice to you and yours as well.
thank you switch, and if it’s any consolation it’s my belief that the majority of “christians”, as well as jews and muslims miss the point as well otherwise your (and my own) experiences would not have left such a negative impression.
I will be celebrating the Saturnalia, from which i honor Saturn the god of time. However i do pay homage to Dionysus as well even though he was a Greek God.
@ncscswitch:
And a blessed Winter Solstice to you and yours as well.
Happy birthday to my son. 1 year old on the 22nd. :-D
@Imperious:
However i do pay homage to Dionysus as well even though he was a Greek God.
Does he cover beer as well??
He is also known as Bachuus. Bachuus is the best god out there, he is the god of sex and beer. Second only to Mars in my opinion. 8-)
@ncscswitch:
Unless you believe in the kind of vain, self focused God such as Piers Anthony describes in the Incarnations of Immortality series, then the entire concept of a soul needing saved is ridiculous… what “loving and forgiving” God is going to condemn 80%+ of the humans to eternal damnation just for the hell of it?
OK last time I checked my Bible it states that he didn’t condemn anyone… Instead he gave them a choice… Satan demanded that all men “spiritually” die… God demanded that they have a choice, and that he would rather you choose life… God loves you no matter what stage in life your at… He even love(s)(d) Osama, Osama just doesn’t have a covenant with him… Does it make sense?
GG
If God is master of the cosmos, he is responsible for the existence of hell and therefore for any people that are suffering there for eternity. IMO that makes such a god not what I would call “loving”.
I can’t wait to see the goofy arguments to refute this. Either God made hell and is not loving, or he’s not omnipotent.
Talk about freedom of religion - “Believe in me and be saved (awww that’s nice) or BURN IN HELL!!!” Sounds very much like the psychotic (ex) boyfriend/girlfriend who kills their former lover so that no one else can have them.
Hell was created by God, but it was never intended as a place for humans, instead it was created purely for satan and his demon cohorts… When man fell he came under the dominion of satan and therefore his curse, condemning him to spiritually be apart from God… God never wanted man to fall, but he did… A loving God wouldn’t have created a way out… I want to see the “whacky” responses to that… :wink:
Is it “overly” simplistic? Yes… I personally like it that way…
GG
froodster, may God forgive you for he is a merciful one without evil there is no good. that is why God created hell. for one has no apprecation of good if they do not experince the bad times as wel(yin and yang). Have you ever noticeed the ssimilarity between Abrahamic and far eastern relgions(toaism).
Evil is only a preversion of Good, it didn’t exsist in the beginning… And if God wasn’t merciful we would all be robots, unable to choose our own destinys… What you are referring to wouldn’t be the mercy of God, cause it isn’t his choice if you choose him it would be yours… So in fact it is the opposite of Eastern Religions if, and only if, your definition of them is “God-and-the-lightning-bolt”… He cannot condemn you to hell you choose that yourself… In fact it his desire that no one perish, but that decision in the end is not his…
GG
well said gg, free will is both our greatest gift and most dangerous curse but i wouldn’t have it any other way
@Guerrilla:
Evil is only a preversion of Good, it didn’t exsist in the beginning… And if God wasn’t merciful we would all be robots, unable to choose our own destinys… What you are referring to wouldn’t be the mercy of God, cause it isn’t his choice if you choose him it would be yours… So in fact it is the opposite of Eastern Religions if, and only if, your definition of them is “God-and-the-lightning-bolt”… He cannot condemn you to hell you choose that yourself… In fact it his desire that no one perish, but that decision in the end is not his…
GG
Also Orcs are a perversion of Elves - they were created by the dark forces . . . .
I think many Christians are falling away from the believe in an actual fiery-furnace-type-of-hell. I think many of us believe that one either accepts God’s friendship, or refutes it. We make the choice in the here-and-now that follows us in the afterworld. My practice - while it was open - was free for someone to join. If they did not join before my practiced closed, then they were unable to. I did not condemn these people to find another physician - they simply did. God does not condemn people to hell, we simply find our way there. We really don’t need God to find hell - i think we can generate/find it on our own.
@cystic:
We really don’t need God to find hell - i think we can generate/find it on our own.
Yup. War, which is human kinds doing, is one of the ways of finding hell.
No. Do not even begin to equate hell to war. Hell cannot be compared to anything we expierience.
Who was it that said “War is hell?”
Oh yes, General Sherman, and I think he knew what he was talking about :-D
@ncscswitch:
Who was it that said "War is hell?"Â
Oh yes, General Sherman, and I think he knew what he was talking about :-D
naaa - no one knows more than M36 - especially not some army-guy.
So the point is that war is worse than hell? There is an interesting philosophical discussion.
