what Hobbes is saying is 100% true. But, where tanks become a real problem for the allies is on Persia. Stack 8+ there and use German force to open Kazhak. Even if the Allies know to look for it, the mere threat of it is often enough for them to give up the Caucausus complex.
J1 Two IC Build
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Japan can’t afford to strafe the Transports. (Assuming America buys any.) And why should America buy them until the Jap fleets are completely destroyed?
Because it is a lot easier to go KJF if you have at least one transport to secure fighter bases.
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KJF w/o TRN’s and 6 Japan starting FIGs that are able to attack at will due to island bases all over the place is a beotch for the US, thus you need TRN’s, AND troops for them.
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Well, Japan’s going to be down to 4 Fighters, most likely, in any KJF scenario.
Japan after USA 1, in a situation where America should go KJF:
Battleship
Aircraft Carrier
4 Transports
4 Fighters
1 BomberUSA:
2 Aircraft Carriers, 2 Destroyers, 2 Transports, 4 Fighters
From here out it’s a race to see who can produce the most warships, in which case Japan looses. America has 38 IPC, Japan has 34 IPC minus islands lost.
You don’t need to buy a single transport for this. Well, not until round 6 or 7. Why? Because your transports are in the rear, well out of range of enemy fighters until you have submarines to support them and destroyers to defend them.
Everyone always discounts the destroyer…I’ve won many a game on KJF through the power of destroyers.
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Well, Japan’s going to be down to 4 Fighters, most likely, in any KJF scenario.
Japan after USA 1, in a situation where America should go KJF:
Battleship
Aircraft Carrier
4 Transports
4 Fighters
1 BomberUSA:
2 Aircraft Carriers, 2 Destroyers, 2 Transports, 4 Fighters
From here out it’s a race to see who can produce the most warships, in which case Japan looses. America has 38 IPC, Japan has 34 IPC minus islands lost.
You don’t need to buy a single transport for this. Well, not until round 6 or 7. Why? Because your transports are in the rear, well out of range of enemy fighters until you have submarines to support them and destroyers to defend them.
Everyone always discounts the destroyer…I’ve won many a game on KJF through the power of destroyers.
Wait a minute. I’ll give you the US battleship. Assuming the 2nd Japanese CV is out of range and the Japanese player doesn’t want to sacrifice a couple TP’s to sink it using the bomber. But, in most cases, even the US bomber goes down against 1 BB and a fully loaded CV in the sz52 counterattack. So your list should look more like this:
Japan: BB, CV, 4 fig, 1 bmb, 4 TP( should be 5. I build 4 TP+1 existing on J1 but we’ll go with 3+1 existing)
US: BB, 2 DD, fig, 2 TP +$42 to spend. And the DD, 2 TP in sz10 don’t even make it there until US 2. Unless the Allies gave a 20 bid to the US, you can’t build 2 CV, 3 fig in US 1.
And by J2, Japan’s income should most likely include Bury, SFE, Chi, Sink, Ind and sometimes even Yak and Per. That adds up to $39-$41 vs. the US $38.
Finally, I never discount the destroyer. They still cost 12 IPC’s. :-D
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In a Pearl Ultra-Light, Japan willl have 2 BB, 2 AC, 4-5 FIGs, 1 BOM, 3 TRN on the board after J1, all of which will be out of range of the US forces except the BB, TRN (and 1 FIG if the US builds an AC in SZ55 on US1) that could reach a loaded AC in SZ51. And since SZ51 could also have a BB and TRN present… not good odds for the US.
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@ncscswitch:
In a Pearl Ultra-Light
if you want to go ultra, ultra light you can send 1 fig and 1 sub and let the fig die first.(only the American fig is left usually .) this only works in classic though. never tried it in revised to go ultra, ultra light.
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SUB, DST, FIGs and BOM.
Stage an AC to recover FIGs off Wake, reinforce with BB at Wake.
Nothing for the US to counter… -
Back on Japan ICs - I just built a 2nd (well, 3rd I guess) IC in India on J3 - the first was in Manchuria on J1.
The India IC is defended by 6 Inf 6 Ftr, so it’s safe (except from SBRs - doh!) Some more Art and Inf are just behind in FIC and Armor built in India can strike Caucasus next round. I did this because I was able to build 5 Arm in addition anyway, and any more units would have been on Japan start of J4, which would only reach Russia J6 at the earliest. The new IC will produce units that will have effect defensively already after J4 and will be able to attack in J5.
I think I should have built the first one in FIC, given that on UK1 the UK retreated from India. Oh well.
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Once you break 50 IPC a round, you can have 3 ICs and not have a big problem. 9 Tanks is enough to crush Russia, usually. (Excpet when you’re on round 19/20 I think.) Meanwhile, your fleet is now free for other exploits.
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Going for russia japan ultimately needs 3 IC in the mainland. and yes I can supply all of them and Japan.
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I’m liking the East Indies IC - it is protected by water, and can supply 4 units instead of 3. Also, since they’ll be shipped with TRNs, they can be going to Africa, Persia, Australia - all next round. But probably an FIC IC first.
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As I mentioned before, KJF isn’t really an option if Japan doesn’t go heavy to Pearl. You need to be able to take out a Jap BB and Carrier on USA 1 in order to gain the advantage, preferably a couple of fighters as well. Likewise, if Japan goes heavy and does extremely well, it’s also not wise to do a KJF.
However, if Japan is left with a BB, AC, 2 Fig at Pearl and you hit it with 3 Fig, Bomber, Battleship and Transport you can do some serious damage while building a couple of carriers to even the Capital Ship count (maybe exceed it if your BB lives) and press the battle, maintaining the advantage or forcing Japan to yield Asia to teh Russians to build a fleet just barely strong enough to defend against you.
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I would argue that you are wrong Jen…
JSP did a pretty nice job on Japan my last game, and I did Pearl Ultra-Light.
So Japan going Pearl Heavy is NOT a requirement for a KJF strat.
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There’s going to be exceptions. However, those are what my standards are for KJF vs KGF with America.
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As America it’s got to be KJF with minimal support through lendlease and Afrika
Japan would get on it’s first buy 2 trrny and tank and arty 2nd turn factory and bomber. After that depends on what happens. The whole time picking into russia and china, India can wait unless collonial garrison is there
We don’t bid so the extra cash would be nice.
Question can you bid a IC ? -
You have some strange thoughts on builds there 420. Japan will be starved for land units if they build as you state.
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I second the “them’s some strange builds,” 420. Since when can Japan afford a BOM? :? Frankly, when before say turn 6 can anyone afford a BOM? :?
The US can afford BOMs.
IN PACIFIC. :-)
IC and BOM that’s a new one. Really. Did that work? What is your opponent’s first two turns in those cases? I’m all for a Just-play-gosh-darnit.-It’s-a-game-for-Pete’s-sake attitude but that is pretty out there even for me (and I’ve been drinking this evening.) :-)
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The really scarey part is the first turn build is only 25 IPC unless I’m adding wrong.
2 Transports = 16
1 Armor = 5
1 Artillery = 416+5+4 = 25 still, right?
But if he want’s bombers what’s wrong with that? Not like anyone ever goes after Japan anyway, well, other then DM, JSP and I. :P
And for the record, I’ve done 2 Bomber purchases with USA on Round 1 and Round 2 (22 IPC left usually for other builds on Round 2) to give me 5 bombers SBRing Germany every round.
But that REALLY depends on the status of Africa!! England had BETTER have strong forces in Africa to counter Germany!
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You see Japan Can go the first 2 rounds with minimal Ground troops cause all they have to do is secure Mancuria for there IC Kick US out of first chinese space and hold till turn 3. That is when you go grunt and tank city on russia till they fall. The second bomber is to give your already respectable airforce a little more power. I use this Strategy quit a bit and it seems to work well. Germany uasually doesn’t start really pushing on USSR until turn 3 or 4 and thats when u send in japan to pull resources out of eastern russia to deal with it. Unless GB sinks the lone tranny in turn 1 you put 3 tanks and 8 or 6 grunts every turn into russia couple that with Germany’s push and russia won’t last long, garanteed. If you need too pull men off of islands first turn or two, by all means do it, by the time US or Britain come and take it it will be too late to matter. I love Japan it is my Favorite country to use, They make or break axis power. Go Japanese tankettes,T-34 is no match,LOL.
And your right about build cost first turn I meant 2 tanks
Yes Japan will be short a few men and tanks but that is irrelevant because who has an IC near them that they would have to fear a large scale invasion of any of there territories. Unl ess Collonial Garrison is in India this strategy should work well. If there is a garrison, Don’t invade russia until the garrison is gone, buy 3 tanks instead of bomber thats all, still get IC and still Manchuria is the place to go you should be able to take India by turn two if you focus most of your attention there.
I have tried many different Strategy’s with Japan, with none being more succesful then ones similar to this -
I’ve begun to think Japan really only needs China, Manchuria, FIC and Bury. I’ve also started to think that the sinking of the carrier fleet in Pearl is a rather large waste of resources. WIthout it you have 2 battleship shots, 3 extra fighters, an extra bomber, etc. That’s a lot of firepower you can use to crush the Russian wall at Bury.
Besides, America’s only going to pull those ships into the Atlantic, and last I checked, 1 Submarine is rather ineffective against 12 fighters. (Assuming Germany’s buying fighters, not silly aircraft carriers.)
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