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How reasonable of a price are we talking? That looks like a very nice printout!
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Ok you can’t sell my maps!!!
That artwork was created by me and it is not for sale. You simply can’t go into business and all you can do is offer the artwork for others to download and print on their own. :roll:
I was aware of the possibility that someone might think I was selling something, which is why in my last post I tried to make clear that I am not commercially involved in any way.
I am not selling anything. I am trying to do my forum colleagues a favour by allowing others to gain these maps at the same price I do given how pleased I am with what this printer - my brother - has done for me before. The price I put above is what I am paying. The opportunity is for others is to do the same if they wish, but by contacting the printer direct and not through me.
They can send him whatever artwork they wish. Or they can use artwork he already has, because he has previously produced maps for others on this forum.
But because this is based on your artwork I do understand your nervousness and will tell him he can only produce maps for forum colleagues that provide the artwork themselves if you so wish.
As a customizer who provides copyrighted gaming materials to A&A enthusiasts, I would like to state that we should all be a little nervous about what we do. Printed maps IMO are essential to having a great gaming experience, we customize them, share them and let the community know that they are available. This should be the end of our involvement of the process, and the users job is to download the shared file, take it themselves to a local print shop, and pay them for the job directly. I understand that Private Panic wishes to help the community save some money, but that is not our job as customizers… there should never be any reason to “ship” others any copyrighted materials when the end user should be doing it themselves, even if it means spending more to do so.
Okay YG.
The net effect of my posts in this thread is to:
1. Recommend a printer.
2. Provide examples of what he has done for me and another forum member - one as a photo of a map in use, the other a “blueprint” of a map being ordered by me.
3. Share a price quoted to me.
4. Share the printer’s contact details.
Are any of those steps reasonable within the etiquette of the Customisations board (or Marketplace where I originally put it until djensen moved it)?
When I have your answer I will be happy to remove this thread (especially since there is no gain in it for me other than the hope that I have helped some forum colleagues, as well as my brother) and replace it with a new one that only includes whatever steps you say are allowed. Or no new thread at all if none of those steps are okay.
In my humble opinion, there are actually two ethical issues at play here. The first one, as IL and YG have already commented on, is the issue of someone’s intellectual property being used by a third party without their express permission. The second issue, which I don’t think has been explicitly commented on yet, is that Private Panic’s post – although I’m sure he didn’t intend it to be that way – comes uncomfortably close to looking like nepotism. Context is important in potential conflict-of-interest situations, and here’s an example of what I mean. If someone had asked the forum “I need to get a map commercially printed, and I want good-quality work; what should I do?” and if Private Panic (or anyone else) had answered, “Go to [insert name of well-known franchised printing service] and they’ll take care of you,” that wouldn’t have been a problem. In fact, such advice has been given many times on this forum. In the case were talking about, however, Private Panic posted his message on his own initiative, not in response to a question, and his message starts with the sentence, “My brother has a print business,” so it’s easy to construe his post as an attempt to use his forum connections to drum up business for a relative. Again, let me stress that I’m sure that this wasn’t his intention; I’m just pointing out that it’s very easy to accidentally fall into an ethical conflict without realizing it, and that the situation sometimes has to be described in stark terms to highlight what the potential problem is. (I live in Montreal, where ethical lapses by elected officials and private business interests working in collusion with each other have occupied a lot of newspaper space over the past few years, and one of the points that has been made clear by the situation is that optics are important: even if no actual wrongdoing is taking place, situations that simply look questionable can raise a lot of questions, and thus are best avoided.)
No - my intention was to be honest and up front about the fact that my printer was my brother.
I will continue to enjoy using his excellent service. Sorry I cannot recommend it to anyone else.
Fail to understand how this is in the best interests of forum members, but given all the flak deleting it is certainly in my best interests.
I get thee impression Private Panic was just stressing how well his brother the printer does very good work on the maps. He was just suggesting he could get the maps printed for the people on this site.
He does good work and this is the price. Not looking to make a profit. What are you gonna get maybe 2 to 4 maps done only ?
It be saying like Ok I downloaded IL’s map from this site ( which I did ) and went to a printer ( Lets say kinkos ) and had 3’x 6’ map printed for $75.00.
Now if I say Ok they do great work and thats where you should get it printed is like saying the same thing Private Panic is saying about his brother. So 2 to 4 people download map and go to kinko’s now and they get the extra business and made a profit then thats saying the same thing basically.
So what your saying is each member from site has to download map make his own changes to map and get a hold of Private Panics brother, get a price quote and then have him print each members modified map.
I understand the rights just seems to be a double standard.
@Private:
Okay YG.
The net effect of my posts in this thread is to:
1. Recommend a printer.
2. Provide examples of what he has done for me and another forum member - one as a photo of a map in use, the other a “blueprint” of a map being ordered by me.
3. Share a price quoted to me.
4. Share the printer’s contact details.Are any of those steps reasonable within the etiquette of the Customisations board (or Marketplace where I originally put it until djensen moved it)?
When I have your answer I will be happy to remove this thread (especially since there is no gain in it for me other than the hope that I have helped some forum colleagues, as well as my brother) and replace it with a new one that only includes whatever steps you say are allowed. Or no new thread at all if none of those steps are okay.
My apologies, by no means was I attempting to insult you or accuse you of any wrong doing, even though I see now that my post may have come across that way. With that said, I recall a member going so far as to ask WOTC for permission to share their copyright materials which was officially denied in writing. We also have a credited A&A designer among us who has been reading forum posts here for years, and to tell you the truth… I think it’s miracle that we have been able to do what we have been doing for so long. That’s what I meant when I said we should all be nervous about this, and I’m sorry if I misunderstood and assumed that materials would be “shipped” to people which is the part I would have an issue with.
@Young:
My apologies, by no means was I attempting to insult you or accuse you of any wrong doing, even though I see now that my post may have come across that way. With that said, I recall a member going so far as to ask WOTC for permission to share their copyright materials which was officially denied in writing. We also have a credited A&A designer among us who has been reading forum posts here for years, and to tell you the truth… I think it’s miracle that we have been able to do what we have been doing for so long. That’s what I meant when I said we should all be nervous about this, and I’m sorry if I misunderstood and assumed that materials would be “shipped” to people which is the part I would have an issue with.Â
Well said my friend. I remember the member being denied permission by WOTC. I was hoping that didn’t effect the map in my thread as well. I do what I can to try to help forum members but lately I have refrained from making further changes on my map. I hope we can continue to aid one another in our addiction known as Axis and Allies :)
@SS:
So what your saying is each member from site has to download map make his own changes to map and get a hold of Private Panics brother, get a price quote and then have him print each members modified map.
Exactly SS. Thank you. All those who would see my post on this forum already have access to these materials. Nevertheless, I do respect the fact that IL shared his map, which is why I responded as below:
@Private:
But because this is based on your artwork I do understand your nervousness and will tell him he can only produce maps for forum colleagues that provide the artwork themselves if you so wish.
@Young:
My apologies, by no means was I attempting to insult you or accuse you of any wrong doing ….
YG - if I ever manage to make half the contribution to these boards that you, Marc and IL do I will be amazed. I deleted my posts so that we could all move on. There was a degree of frustration in doing so for which I in turn apologise.
Im sorry too, but to me it appeared that once again ( this has happened many times before where someone went into business like on ebay selling my maps), but in this case the result was just an effective way to get a copy already printed for zero profit. But don’t worry, if you maintain the ink , people will print their own at their own cost. People will enjoy it for years.
I’m likewise sorry for anything in my post which sounded stronger than it was intended to be. I had tried to make it clear that I didn’t personally think that Private Panic had done anything wrong; my concern was about how it might be perceived by someone misreading his intentions.
Thanks guys. Anyway deleted so you can turn your attention to much more interesting topics. :-)
@CWO:
I’m likewise sorry for anything in my post which sounded stronger than it was intended to be. I had tried to make it clear that I didn’t personally think that Private Panic had done anything wrong; my concern was about how it might be perceived by someone misreading his intentions.
Your post was awesome CWO Marc, I know what you mean about the corruption in Montreal, especially with the politicians, but it might play second fiddle to what’s been going on in Vancouver for decades which is more street level with the cops.
