It seems to be a popular view that Japan is wasting its money if it buys a complex before it has maxed out the first one (i.e. is transporting 8 units/turn to the mainland). However, I am of the opinion that 2 tran 1 IC–this is assuming $1 bid to Japan–is the optimal J1 purchase for getting units to the mainland quickly. There was an old thread (sorry, I couldn’t find the link on my first search and I’m too lazy to look harder) that had some calculations to this effect, but for the short version, consider:
—If you build 3 tran on J1, you can put 8 units in Asia on your second turn. However, with 2 tran 1 IC you can get 9 units there: 6 from your three transports, and three more from your complex. With a 2 IC purchase it’s down to 8 again, one from your transport and 6 from your complexes. (I’m assuming throughout that the UK killed your transport in SZ 59 so that you only have one to start with.) So if you’re trying to get as many units to Asia on J2 as you can, 2 tran 1 IC is the way to go.
—4 tran on J1, using a bid of $2, is also a good way to start fast. However, in this case your capacity outstrips your income; it will be a couple rounds before you can actually get new units fast enough to keep your transports busy. The 2 tran 1 IC buy is better optimized at keeping your production/transport capacity matched up with the number of units you can afford to produce. In particular, a 4 tran J1 purchase enables you to put as many as 10 units into Asia on J2 if you clean out Philippines, East Indies, Okinawa, and Wake, but then you run out of island units and can only make up to 8 new ones in Japan. So you get a lot of inf on J2 but it’s more of an anomaly, where the 2 tran 1 IC buy gives you a smoother and more continuous startup.
—As far as location, I like FIC the best. Kwang is farther from Moscow than either Fic or Man, so if you’re trying to put pressure on the Russians quickly you want either Fic or Man. You can supply plenty of troops to the northern area from Japan itself, so the complex is needed more on the southern end. Plus it enables you to get to Africa, Caucasus, etc better.
—So far I’ve been assuming KGF. In KJF you should certainly be a bit more hesitant about getting factories up quickly. However, I’ve found that a FIC complex, which is always where I build on J1 if I build a factory at all, can be very helpful in KJF. Ideally when defending against an American fleet you want to defend as far out as possible, e.g. with a fleet in the Caroline or even Solomon islands. However, if you’re forced to fall back, FIC is a great fallback point. The key thing about it is that it borders all three of your valuable islands. If you get in trouble you can fall back to SZ 36 and build more ships there to join your retreating fleet. Often this will be enough to prevent the Americans from taking any of those expensive islands right away. If your only factory is in Japan you’re forced to keep your navy farther north to incorporate the new builds, and the Americans have an easier time getting to the southern islands.
French ic
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Basically it is a way to boost the German Fleet unification and to challenege the Allies in the North Atlantic.
Assumption: Africa bid large enough to allow for Egypt to be taken w/o using Med Fleet.
Basic Moves/Concept:
Germany opens with build of an AC in the Baltic, IC in France, and balance as INF.
Germany uses forces in Africa for Egypt, counters Russia as possible in central Europe, but with a focus of pulling back and stacking.
Med Fleet goes to SZ13, as does the SZ8 SUB, combined with FIGs to kill the UKBB, probably w/o loss
Land 1 INF in Gibraltar to prevent a RAF counter-strike on the Med Fleet.
Land 2 FIGs on the new AC in the Baltic, build the IC in ParisOn G2, you link the fleets in SZ7 AND drop additional naval units into SZ7 from your build using the new IC, a maximum of 1/3 of Germany income for navy (the balance is used for land units to reinforce against Russia and to start building up to push them back).
Germany ends up with a fleet that is somethign like this…
1 AC
2 FIG
1 BB
4 SUB
1 DST
2 TRN
Units built on G1 (2 TRN most likely so as to maintain invasion threat of London and USA, as well as provide fodder against Allied counter attacks)This will compare to an Allied fleet of
1 BB (UK)
2 TRN (UK)
2 TRN (USA)
1 SUB (USSR)
1 DST (USA)Add in land based FIGs to a strike on the Allied fleet(s) and Germany gets control of the North Atlantic for several turns while the US and UK try to build up enough to counter that fleet. From SZ7, Germany can threaten London, secure Algeria and East Africa, and threaten Eastern Canada.
With the heavy initial push by Germany with their fleet, UK has to play more conservative… building land units to defend against Sea Lion on UK1, and possibly again on UK2. USA cannot send their ships to UK to reinforce, or they will lose them. Also, with the strong naval pressence by Germany, UK is likely to have to save up cash one round in order to drop enough units the following turn to not immediately die. So this REALLY slows down UK, and significanly slows the US.
The problems with the move are pretty easy to see though…
- USA/UK land in Algeria on Turn1. Combined Fleet is only in range of German Med Fleet and any Western European FIGs. They German Med Fleet is then blocked from a link-up in SZ7.
- Lack of land units in Europe on Turn 1 AND Turn 2 means Russia is going to gain a LOT of ground, and extra income, which will sorely press Germany for SEVERAL turns, and even slightly bad dice by Germany will give Russia control of Ukraine, West Russia, Karelia, Norway and Belo for as long as they want to hold them, and be able to trade Eastern and Balkans for a turn or 3.
- Germany can be kicked out of Africa by a UK counter from India, and won;t have the ability to shuttle reinforcements in using the Med Fleet.
As I said, as a surprise move, it might be worthwhile. And in a multi-player FTF game it could be devastating (you need good Allied coordination to counter it).
Otherwise, it is a move that falls into the “Oh, that is interesting, but won’t work” category. -
@ncscswitch:
FTF game
what is it
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FTF is Face to Face.
A real life game, sitting at a table, with dice, no sims, and play proceeding quickly form move to move.
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One TRN from the EUS into SZ12 stalls that a bit. It is a sacrificial lamb to be sure but it blocks the link for a turn or puts it where it doesn’t want to be giving the US and UK time to get more boats in the water. It buys time for Geramany I would think but not enough to justify the mess it creates on the Eastern Front.
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I always viewed the W. Europe IC as a method for Germany to put submarines into the water in a secure fashion and in a location to prevent England from building fleet due to the loss of relatively cheap submarines added to the power of the Luftwaffe.
If you go this route, never spend more then 8 IPC for navy a round with Germany. You need to have 25% more income then Russia for the building of land forces.
As for the allies, once I take and HOLD W. Europe (by Hold I mean it isn’t falling in the next few rounds), if it happens to be held with America, I’ll put the IC in. If England’s just amazing and is earning more then 36 IPC a round, I might put an IC for them in W. Europe if they own it in the same circumstances.
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I agree that the WEU german IC is a one trick pony because now the guys I play with are going to develop a strat to get around it. However I do enjoy the buffer it gives you before the massed invasion. I still think INF is the way to go for Germany but man is it fun to watch the allies try to figure out what to do with the WEU IC
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The strat to get around it is to kill Japan with America and focus on Germany with Russia and Bomb the crud outta Germany with England. Sign off Africa unless you do extremely well with Egypt. And you can do it well.
Other option is to just keep hitting the Atlantic fleet and force Germany to allow it to be sunk or invest too much into rebuilding it that Russia walks into Europe almost unopposed.
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One TRN from the EUS into SZ12 stalls that a bit. It is a sacrificial lamb to be sure but it blocks the link for a turn or puts it where it doesn’t want to be giving the US and UK time to get more boats in the water.
I don’t think this block works. Luftwaffe can take out the transport during combat move, and still allow the link in non-combat move.
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Yup.
The best block is to put the BB, 2 Trn from England in SZ 12 and add a DST, 2 TRN from USA and a Sub from Russia. He’ll have to engage with boats which negates a link in SZ 7 since they already engaged and have no movement left.
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Yup.
The best block is to put the BB, 2 Trn from England in SZ 12 and add a DST, 2 TRN from USA and a Sub from Russia. He’ll have to engage with boats which negates a link in SZ 7 since they already engaged and have no movement left.
Assuming German move of Atlantic sub and Mediterranean fleet together to Gibraltar, that’s 1 transport, 1 sub, 1 battleship, 5 fighters, and 1 bomber (attack 25, count 10) against 4 transport, sub, destroyer, battleship (defense 13, count 8)
Germany kills the entire Allied fleet.
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Assuming the submarine lived and didn’t die, which is typically the case in Gibraltar.
And it DOES stop a unification of the German fleet.
Though, I really don’t see the issue. America/England can crush a German fleet in a short set of rounds without any effect other then a 2 round delay in Asia. And Russia’s capable of keeping a German play who’s wasting time defending boats in SZ 7 from making any progress in Asia.
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Which leaves Africa for Germany…
Or the Middle East for Japan… one or the other. -
"Assuming German move of Atlantic sub and Mediterranean fleet together to Gibraltar, that’s 1 transport, 1 sub, 1 battleship, 5 fighters, and 1 bomber (attack 25, count 10) against 4 transport, sub, destroyer, battleship (defense 13, count Cool
Germany kills the entire Allied fleet."
Assuming the submarine lived and didn’t die, which is typically the case in Gibraltar.
And it DOES stop a unification of the German fleet.
Though, I really don’t see the issue. America/England can crush a German fleet in a short set of rounds without any effect other then a 2 round delay in Asia. And Russia’s capable of keeping a German play who’s wasting time defending boats in SZ 7 from making any progress in Asia.
With sub, battleship, and fighter attacking an enemy battleship, there is a good chance that the German Atlantic sub does not die.
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Germany’s going to have Africa for at least 2 rounds anyway, Switch. Probably three because you have to chase them down.
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Give Germany a slowed Allied naval set-up, a strong position in SZ7, AND Africa, and Russia is fracked, maybe even UK itself.
Germany with a Navy AND $50 IPC? Have tyou learned nothing form the damage that has been doen to the fleet that the US spent 17 turns building up that is now a shadow of itself off Tokyo, and is only 1-2 turns from total anhiliation? And that with Japan only spending money on fleet for a couple of turns?
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Japan’s spent a heck of a lot more on fleet then America, so you’re statement of two turns of build up is rather ridiculous. (Besides, it was more then 2 turns, it’s more like 5 turns of ship building for Japan vs 4 turns for America.)
And I’ve learned a lot, actually. Like how to royally screw you up because you’re clueless on certain aspects of the game. This one has been a very serious intelligence coup for me. I know what to do to make you do what I want you too. Now I just have a few more fealers for the nitty gritty before I have you down pat.
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Perhaps then I should just take London on G18 and be done with it eh? Or shall I embarass you with the full Global Domination?
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Whatever you think you have time for. The game was over when the allies had no actual successes in the first three rounds of play due to the dice. Everything else has been bad axis strategy coupled with dragging the game out.
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Right… Bad Axis strat has the Axis collecting $120 IPC’s, give or take a few, for the past several rounds…
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Winning does not define good strategy.
Good dice rolls beat good strategy any day, and twice on Sunday.
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