How popular is the Sea Lion feint nowadays?

[creeping-deth87]

Okay I have to ask, because it seems like everyone does this, I really don’t understand why most players put the German battleship into 111 instead of 110. If I were the UK in this situation, I would scramble every time into 110 with all 3 fighters because there is no Allied destroyer. That means that every Allied plane that scores a hit is taking out a German plane, and that is just unacceptable for the Germans I find. It just amazes me how many people put the battleship into 111, does 110 get left alone when this happens? Or do you still attack 110 and the opponent just doesn’t scramble for some reason?

[Karl7]

Sealion…… what heartbreaker it is.  W/20+ bid now going to the allies it really isn’t a viable option anymore unless the UK really drops the ball Uk1.

To keep it possible, I build 3 ftrs Ger1.  More fire power to spread around and can be useful even if you don’t do it.  Problem w/fleet build is many times the Allies adeptly counter leaving you w/pretty useless fleet.

[taamvan]

“Okay I have to ask, because it seems like everyone does this, I really don’t understand why most players put the German battleship into 111 instead of 110. If I were the UK in this situation, I would scramble every time into 110 with all 3 fighters because there is no Allied destroyer. That means that every Allied plane that scores a hit is taking out a German plane, and that is just unacceptable for the Germans I find. It just amazes me how many people put the battleship into 111, does 110 get left alone when this happens? Or do you still attack 110 and the opponent just doesn’t scramble for some reason?”

The conventional wisdom is that you wipe out all the fleets 110 111 106 easy-peazy (but not 109) and UK never scrambles.  the scramble is too risky and eliminates your best defenders.    Where you place the BB is important because he can counterattack you and sink it–the fun trick is to retreat it into SZ111 so its both protected by airbase and its all together and unscreenable.  You very much could do the same in SZ 110 and defend it from HB with Airbase, but that just moves everything over one space and costs extra.  If you are really lucky, you get to keep a couple of subs from the SZ111 retreat as well.

If the BB simply sallies and attacks with the planes, it will usually get picked off.

If you keep the BB and add a CV and the CA, you have a real, legitimate fleet and have it after you complete G1.

[creeping-deth87]

Eh, I donno… I feel like UK should absolutely scramble in that situation into 110 with no German Battleship. Yeah you might lose some fighters, but you’re definitely taking the Luftwaffe down a notch by doing so.

[Young Grasshopper]

As recently as our last game, Germany only brought in 2 subs and aircraft into 110 and it was obvious to the allies that they should scramble because every hit with defending planes would go straight toward German air units. Well the Axis rolled great, and the Allies rolled crap… Germany lost zero planes and the Allies lost all three. Toranto was off the table and the Germans conducted a successful Sealion round 3 and the Americans were forced to spend in the Atlantic to liberate the UK which never happened, meanwhile the Japanese took Calcutta and turned their masive bank roll toward Sydney. After 9 hours the Allies lost of course (2-1 victory token house rule condition), and in the post game discussion we all traced to defeat back to the decision to scramble into 110. Obviously the dice gods were cruel, but after knowing what can happen in that case, I think we will leave our planes grounded next time… because a UK epic fail in 110 hurts the UK a lot more than a Germany epic fail in 110 hurts the Germans.

[Jennifer]

@Karl7:

Sealion…… what heartbreaker it is.  W/20+ bid now going to the allies it really isn’t a viable option anymore unless the UK really drops the ball Uk1.

To keep it possible, I build 3 ftrs Ger1.  More fire power to spread around and can be useful even if you don’t do it.  Problem w/fleet build is many times the Allies adeptly counter leaving you w/pretty useless fleet.

Not to mention, HOLDING London can be tricky, IMHO.  If you can’t hold it, then was the cost worth it?  Keep in mind, every plane you lose is one less to use against Moscow and Russia, if left alone long enough, can be a monster to deal with as well…  Especially if you don’t keep them out of Eastern Europe.

Just my two IPCs…take em for what they’re worth.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

I used to build a G-fleet on G1, but changed to 3 artys 1 DD and a Ftr.
I rather do invest on G2 in a G-Kriegsmarine.
That way I can oversee evetything I need and invest my ipc’s in the right areas.

[drummerinheat]

In the few competitive games I’ve played I bought the standard Carrier & 2 Transports.  The mistake I made is not keeping my German fleet together to complete one task.  I took Gib with part of it and tried to attack Leningrad with the rest.  Silly mistakes.  It needs to stay together and either complete a SeaLion, take Gib/help in Med, or attack Leningrad.

Now if only I could figure out a way to get the Axis in to the Mid east.

[gamerman01]

I haven’t even thought about a Sealion threat on G1 for…… many games now.  Maybe I should again.

Need a destroyer and a sub.  To clear out the Baltic cheaply and safely, and/or to threaten Allied subs including the existing 2 Russian subs (one being in the Baltic).  The sub also threatens to disrupt the Russian NO on R2.  Cheap boats also threaten any remaining UK fleet more efficiently.  So really the whole purchase is for Russia, because the sub and destroyer are often used on the Russian fleet in the Baltic to clear the way for safer transporting.

So I do mixed.  14 for Sub and Destroyer, and 16 on ground.  I’ve never lost as Axis (even with substantial bids to the Allies) (18-0), though I might be losing one to a top player in the league…

My most recent win included a G1 attack on Russia and ignoring 110 and 111 both, and this was against a very good player who has a good record every year.  The UK isn’t worth as much attention as you might think…  Neither is Egypt… Russia is what matters.

Usually scramble with UK like someone else said.  You aren’t helping Russia as much when you don’t scramble.  You only need one plane from the UK (the Scotland one suffices) to attack Z97 UK1 if you bid a sub to 98.  German planes are extremely, extremely valuable.  YG had anecdotal evidence of a dice disaster for the UK when scrambling, but this is not how you should make decisions.  I disagree that Germany getting diced hard in 110 is not a disaster for Germany.  If you don’t send a battleship to 110, I will almost always scramble 3 fighters.  I often do even if you do send a battleship.  Russia is what matters.  Take down German units at every opportunity, with any power possible.

[Nippon-koku]

Interesting note on the SZ110 scramble Gamerman.  I’ve never liked a scramble there as the UK (unless Germany comes in too thin for whatever reason).  As valuable as German planes are, the UK needs to hang onto those planes to help defend the area as the US makes its way over.

[gamerman01]

More would agree with you than me  :-)

[Nippon-koku]

Hmm, I never like to be on the side of popular opinion.

Therefore I will add this: what you CAN’T do as the UK is put the blinders on and say “Under no circumstances am I going to scramble.”  You have to play it by situation.

A recent example:

Was playing Ike and he went for SZ 110 & 111.  Knowing I never scramble, he came light to 110 (I think it was something like 2 subs, 3 fighters, 3 tacs).  He had a terrible roll in 111 (had to back out and I actually kept a tipped BB), followed by a very rare scramble from me (which made sense based on the previous battle).  He only hit 3, I got lucky and hit 5.  All said and done, Germany had lost 6 planes, while the UK had lost none and had 2 BB’s remaining.  We decided to restart.  Allied victory!  8-)

[gamerman01]

Yes, that’s death, and that’s why you scramble sometimes

[MarshmallowofWar]

@Nippon-koku:

Was playing Ike and he went for SZ 110 & 111.  Knowing I never scramble, he came light to 110 (I think it was something like 2 subs, 3 fighters, 3 tacs).  He had a terrible roll in 111 (had to back out and I actually kept a tipped BB), followed by a very rare scramble from me (which made sense based on the previous battle).  He only hit 3, I got lucky and hit 5.  All said and done, Germany had lost 6 planes, while the UK had lost none and had 2 BB’s remaining.  We decided to restart.  Allied victory!  8-)

I am under the impression that all scrambles need to be decided before any combat is rolled. Am I misunderstanding this?

I get that a friendly game doesn’t always stickle for rules, but in this case I’m asking about the rule

Marsh

[gamerman01]

I don’t think he’s saying he made the scramble decision after 111.  I think he’s saying they rolled 111, and it didn’t go well, and then rolled 110 which killed Germany and they started over.

Yes all scramble decisions are made before any dice

[Nippon-koku]

@Gamerman01:

I don’t think he’s saying he made the scramble decision after 111.  I think he’s saying they rolled 111, and it didn’t go well, and then rolled 110 which killed Germany and they started over.

Yes all scramble decisions are made before any dice

This is correct.  As I read what I wrote I can see that I wasn’t clear on it.  The initial scramble decision was made because Ike came in light, figuring I wouldn’t scramble because I never do.