Hey Cmdr:
No, all the original NOs are still in the game (including the USA one). A few have been modified slightly (e.g., “spread of communism” NO only applies to mainland europe now), but for the most part, the NOs are simply in addition to whats already there.
Here is the most recent version of the Mod (its been a while since I’ve checked this thread). Its now in its final form :) enjoy!
3 PUs for each originally German, Italian, or Pro-Axis neutral territory that Russia controls in mainland Europe. (This modifies Russia’s “Spread of Communism” objective).
I just want to double check, this would not include any of the islands like Sardinia, right?
Also, I’m still wrapping my head around the Vichy France rules. It would seem that this is a choice the Axis makes, primarily. Only thing the Allies could do to stop it would be to land a plane in Southern France on UK1. But it seems to benefit the Allies more than the Axis - the Allies can now get all that income from the French African territories, while the Axis only stands to gain about 5 Inf total, right?
And what happens to the French navy that isn’t in z93? They stay Free French?
Yes, it’s the Axis player’s choice to make, in the first instance. Allies can do a few things to try to stop or mitigate it: (i) liberate and hold Normandy until France’s turn; (ii) put UK units in Southern France; (iii) but UK or US units in French territories that Allies don’t want to turn Vichy.
Simply putting a plane in Southern France probably wouldn’t be sufficient to stop it since Italy could simply attack with an inf, and its 3 planes. If it clears the territory of units without taking it, Vichy France will still happen on France’s turn.
Whether and to what extent it benefits Axis depends, of course, on whats happening on the board. In addition to the pro-axis infantry, Axis gets a free hand on Italy’s turn to do things other than deal with the French. Its gets a defensive fleet in sz 93, which, when coupled with a destroyer in 95, can serve as a handy blocker (not to mention a deterrence to allied landings in Southern France). The Vichy arrangement also potentially denies Allies a landing spot in Africa, since all the territories that planes could reach from the UK would go Vichy (unless UK takes steps to prevent this).
No, the French ships by Madagascar and the English channel do not turn Vichy.
Really the best way to get your mind around the Vichy France thing is to play. Up for a game?
@Shin:
3 PUs for each originally German, Italian, or Pro-Axis neutral territory that Russia controls in mainland Europe. (This modifies Russia’s “Spread of Communism” objective).
I just want to double check, this would not include any of the islands like Sardinia, right?
That’s how I read it, so if you’re wrong, we both are! :evil:
I checked, and taking Sardinia doesn’t trigger the boost in TripleA, at least.
I’ve started a few games (as Allies, so far), but still have no idea how the VIchy thing affects the game since my opponents always attack Southern France. Seems like the Axis really have to go out of their way to make it happen.
yup, mainland europe excludes islands.
@Shin:
I checked, and taking Sardinia doesn’t trigger the boost in TripleA, at least.
I’ve started a few games (as Allies, so far), but still have no idea how the VIchy thing affects the game since my opponents always attack Southern France. Seems like the Axis really have to go out of their way to make it happen.
I was thinking the same. To ensure S. France doesn’t fall, Germany would have to dedicate planes to clearing it (unless you wanted to risk Italian planes) without any ground forces. Seems like the risk outweighs the reward…but that’s just my untested, unplayed, opinion!
I could see setting up Vichy so that the Italians could invade Southern France in I2 - it essentially saves them the trouble of killing that fleet, and denies it to the Allies. As an added bonus, you destroy a few French Inf around the board too.
Still, dangerous to take forces away from the France fight to take Normandy, and extremely tricky to take Normandy with the Italians.
I generally hit Normandy with Germany with 2 inf, 1 art, 1 arm anyway.
But if I want to activate Vichy, I would have to redetail 4 or 5 aircraft away from the British to ensure to clear S. France in one shot and minimize risk of defensive fire hitting multiple plans. (Not negate the risk, minimize it.)
You don’t have to clear S France, tho. As long as the UK doesn’t land stuff there, you’re fine.
correct :)
I have a question concerning the Russian NO.
It says that Russia gets 2 additional PU per open lend lease, if Japan declares war. So, if Russia declares war at Japan, Russia still gets these extra PU?
No, they do not. Those only happen if Japan declares on Russia. It’s an incentive to keep them off each other’s backs.
@Shin:
No, they do not. Those only happen if Japan declares on Russia. It’s an incentive to keep them off each other’s backs.
What does Japan get for not declaring war on Russia?
You don’t get a bonus from not declaring war. But both sides get punished for declaring a war.
Japan gives Russia bonus IPC from that land lease NO. That’s very likely 2 IPC from persia each round and maybe 2 more from norway and amur each.
Russia, on the other hand, gives Japan the ability to invade Siberia, Kazakhstan and so on.
Exactly. And critically, by DOWing Russia also gives Japan the ability to block sz 5 by moving a ship there, which cuts off the Pacific Lend-Lease Route. Granted, Japan could always declare war on Russia to block the route, but then Russia at least gets an offsetting increase through its other routes. But if Russia declares war on Japan unprovoked, there’s no offset.
The north africa NO for USA is a great cash cow for the allies. I really like the mod
I like the beachhead NO for the USA.
Germany first is totally an option now. This mod does a lot to improve the game, and I think the only question is what might need to be taken from the Allies. The fact that everyone is playtesting the heck out of it means we’ll more than likely get those answers soon.
Another thing I like about it is it speeds up the game. J1 is a MUST. You’re a fool if you wait. The Axis have to win quickly, or the Allies will crush them.
Yah! I love that its getting put through its paces now by league. Looking forward to see how all these games shake out.
Regarding, “J1 DOW is a must now” thats a very interesting perspective, and you might be right. But i willl say that the general view among the TripleA-online regulars who initially conceived of and play-tested the mod is that it makes J3DOW at least as viable as J1DOW (if not more so). There are several reasons for this:
1. Textbook J1DOW doesn’t address Guam, which gives USA +5 when at war
2. J1DOW permits USA to get the North Africa Beachhead objective on US1, before Italy has had a chance to do anything with FrenchNorth Africa–another +5 for USA;
3. Sinking the ANZAC transport on J1 isn’t as big a deal cuz ANZAC still gets +3 for Gilbert+Samoa+Fiji, and the DNG NO is only worth 3.
4. J1DOW ensures that UK Pacific gets +3 for the Indian Ocean NO for several rounds of war.
5. J1DOW completely negates any strategic benefit of pursuing Vichy France (which actually can be a big bonus for Axis when UK is the only player at war on the Atlantic side)
6. J1DOW makes it more difficult for Euro Axis to contest the med (which is much more important in the Mod) or to challenge the UK no-sub objective for more than a round or 2.
You are very correct, however, that Axis definitely needs to hit the ground winning and move quickly to secure the win, regardless of when Japan DOWs. While J1DOW certainly remains viable (I’ve had some success with it in Mod games), I think its benefits are counter-weighted enough for later JDOWs to warrant serious consideration.
Food for thought. It will be really interesting to see what conclusions can be drawn from all the League games using Balance Mod.
