KAF

[newpaintbrush]

J1 amphib to Alaska/W. Can is right out.  The Japs just can’t afford it, they must land infantry in Asia.

But J2 landing in Alaska/WCan is POTENTIALLY sound against a KGF, because the US should be concentrating on grinding out that early game.

I sometimes harass Alaska/W. Can as a target of opportunity, using batleship support shot(s) and a fighter that lands on a carrier.  But that’s rare because a UK bomber near the Asian coast can blow up Jap transports . . . I remember I played against a Japan player once that didn’t guard his transports, and I killled three transports with one bomber (wipes nostalgic tear).  But against good US players, I usually leave Alaska alone until J3-J4, then pull light harassment.

J3-J5 you have lots of Japanese transports, and you threaten a major landing at W. Canada, forcing the US to either make a defensive build or PREPARE for a defensive build.  Right when Japanese units are at Moscow’s door, more infantry to the Asian coast doesn’t help, and that’s when you start messing with the US in force.

[newpaintbrush]

Oh yeah, the topic was KAF . . . don’t try it.

Infantry is verry cost-effective.  All the US does is build lots of infantry.  All USSR does is build lots of infantry.  UK does air/navy.

It’s inefficient for either the Japs OR the Germans to attack US in force.  Japan needs EIGHT transports to set up a constant chain between Japan and Alaska/W. Canada, and that takes a while to build.  If you keep harassing the US while you’re building up to eight transports, the US just uses its W. US infantry plus some air to keep Japan back.  The US1-US2 retake of Africa in the KGF plan is not slowed, and by the time Japan gets around to serious business, it’s 10 inf 2 fighters at W. Canada, with more reinforcements on the way.

Germany trying to invade the US is pretty dismal.  You can pull some harassment of Brazil, or go to Mexico and so forth, but the Germans need a lot of expensive transports to pull the attack off, and Russia just keeps the pressure up.

[Jennifer]

Exactly my point.  As the Allies you should be falling all over yourselves with glee when you see Japan land in Africa/Canada on J1 or even J2.  It’s so easy to repell, it shouldn’t even disrupt your European plans more hten 3 or 4 less units for one round.  That’s nothing!

[Guest]

I am still a fan of a MAJOR Japan landing in Alaska/WCan about 3 turns ahead of a massive German push in Europe.

It forces the US to abandone their shuck for a minimum of 1 turn to repel the invasion (if they do not, CUS makes an extra 6 IPC for Japan…)

1 turn of zero troops by the US to the European/Africa theater can be CRITICAL to German advances.

Of course there is also the “annoyance” landing.  But that is just a move for the hell of it, and has little, if any, strategic impact on the game.

But as far as trying to KILL America… DO NOT EVER TRY IT as the Axis.  At least not unless you already have Moscow or London.

[Jennifer]

As America, with a landing of a few units in Alaska on R3 or later, you really arn’t going to disrupt me too much.  So I might have to reduce my move that turn from 10 units to 4 units…meanwhile, I’ve cost Japan 1 full round of moving units from Japan against Russia which means Russia has that much more power against Germany and I’m still landing some troops on the turn I spank Japan for robbing me of my lobster fishing!

[ezto]

Caspian sub has a way to take on America. It only works if the American player does not see it. Check caspian sub out.

[Jennifer]

Dang there’s a lot of if’s in that scenario and they’re all moot if America even sets up a rudimentary shuck-shuck through Canada

[Jennifer]

Or he continues on his normal path of building in W. USA moving to W. Can to E. Can to Europe and let’s you land in Alaska then hits you with 2 or 3 fighters and a couple of infantry killing your invasion force and only costing the allies 2-3 infantry out of 10 a round to Europe.

Meanwhile, Axis are out transports, infantry, and time for two rounds.

[Guest]

@Jennifer:

Meanwhile, Axis are out transports, infantry, and time for two rounds.

Not necessarilly.  Darth has previously posted one option to allow Japan to sustain the offensive unbroken in WCan and Alaska.

And Japan can still send the TRNs back to Japan and bridge to Asia in the same turn, so the TRNs are NEVER wasted.

[Jennifer]

Okay, but now we arn’t talking an invasion in the first 3-5 rounds of battle, we’re probably looking at closer to round 6 or 7 in which case America should be producing 10 ground units a round (total of 30 in North America in nay given round) and Germany should be having a hard time resisting against Russian, British and American forces hitting their stacks (UK, then USA, then USSR, which works well since it helps recover income for Russia)

[Guest]

Nope, still T3, or T4 or later if you want to be more sneaky about it.

[Jennifer]

How gimped are you against Russia then?  You’re talking about 2 transports worth of troops to both Alaska/W. Canada and Buryatia.  That’s at most 4 grounds units to each territory.  hardly a force to be reckoned with, IMHO.

Yea, you’ll divert about 30-45% of American reinforcements to stopping you, but you’re also diverting 50-70% of Japans reinforcements to stopping Russia.  Means Russia will have more land longer, more units to repell Germany, more concentration of units per country (instead of 33% in each, now it’s 50% in each, stronger attack capabilities).

With a British landing in Africa, you could see a Dead Germany long before you show any appreciable progress against America or Asia.

Although, if you’re doing the treaty advantage for the Russians, then you might have something going.

[Patton+]

WOOOT only slightly more difficult than KJF… I have personally tried this several times just to do it  (I really can’t think of anyother reason except to lose the game…) In my weekly 5 player game… It almost worked the first time I tried it… but the next time my opponents saw it coming and started screening me off from my target destinations right from the get go…

Anyway, I have even done crazy stuff with it like throwing down a industrial complex in france… that didn’t help much except the ability to throw down subs in SZ7 is kinda nice… you really need to get the bid for 12-15 to even contimplate that one, and have a national advantage like wolf packs. kinda fun to try and destroy all the allied fleets, if you can get them to seperate.

oh, and if you are trying something this crazy you force your opponents off balance… america never gears up on transports they gear towards subs and destroyers, or atleast that is what I have noticed when I’ve done it, oh but japan has to be pushing on russia … otherwise your dead as Gemany early cause russia will just keep pushing on you since your not producing enough men to maintain a trading line and are falling back slowly while trying to compete in the atlantic… but hey couple lucky rolls and you might have a chance at fending off the russians as germany. not likely though

[Jennifer]

Not for me.  My almost always open for America is 3 Transports, 6 Infantry in SZ 10/E. USA.  Gives me a punch of 8 Infanry, 1 Artillery, 1 Armor for Africa on USA 2.  Along with 2 destroyers, 5 transports which is more then sufficient to give Germany pause before attacking it.  (Gunna loose 2 fighters on Round 1, another on Round 2 if you attack it.  That’s 3 out of 5/6 fighters for minimal gain.)

[Guest]

@Jennifer:

How gimped are you against Russia then?  You’re talking about 2 transports worth of troops to both Alaska/W. Canada and Buryatia.  That’s at most 4 grounds units to each territory.  hardly a force to be reckoned with, IMHO.

Jen, you are missing teh method of execution and assuming split landings…

Think stacato instead…

[DarthMaximus]

Yeah, the method I talked about (some other thread) mentions you do a “normal” J1-3 and set up for a go about J4.  There are several things to consider before you even start, first and foremost if the US has any naval presence in the Pac, forget it.  You should wait until the US BB hits the Eus sz before you even consider and I think waiting until it goes to sz 12 or UK sz helps even more.
Also, you need to be able to look about three turns ahead and determine if Russia is takeable if you continue your push.  How did Ger do in Afr, are they already boxed in by turn 4?  Etc.

I think a very standard J1-3 can both be effective should you decide to make a run and be well disguised.

J1:  Buy IC (for Man), trns.  Attack Chi and Pearl, (Bury if empty)
J2:  Buy trns and inf.  Attack Sfe, Bury (possibly Sin or Ind if empty)
J3:  Buy inf, rt (or arm) - maximize your cash.  Attack Sin and Yak, unload troops to Bury.
(make sure you have about 5 trns)

I would consider this probably my standard opening right now, and nothing should spell attack on US.  And should the US have 8-10 inf in Wus, 8-10 inf in Wcan and 8-10 inf in Ecan, you simply continue with your push to Moscow (or branch to Afr, etc.).

Now on J4 you need to calculate the optimum buy (for use on J5 and beyond).  Probably a trn with the rest inf.  You should safely be able to fortify Yak and Sin, then you transport your 8 units from Japan (2 units from Bury) to Ala (split landing between Ala or Wcan if US is light on troops or was just placing in Eus).

Now you non-com the 3 units place in Man to Bury, move your initial arm and rt to bury, Bury units to Sfe (or keep just keep in bury).

On J5 you should easily be able to attack (possibly reinforce) Wcan with 6-8 additional units (total 16-18 inf 5-6 ftrs, 1 bom, 2 bb-shots) while still placing 3 in Man and possible sending 2 more inf to the Mainland while setting up a shuck of ~6 inf to continue to go to Wcan while maintaining your defensive borders at Yak an Sin for another rd or so.  And at that point if you have to fall back you may be able to pick up Cus (or Wus) as a trade.

You can also pick up HI on J5 with your J4 purchase (that is why you need to plan it out carefully).  Once you hold Ala (on J4), the US is looking at 5-6 ftrs, 1 bom, 2 bb-shots everytime they defend or retake Wcan, And they have to make sure they can defend Wus as well from a direct landing from Ala or the trn at Hi heading to the Mexico area.

This is why, as the US, I’m a firm believer in starting your shuck immediately from Wus on US 1.  Eliminate the threat from the start.

I’ve tried the Japan attack twice - once was a desperation ploy and waaaay too late although I had a little success and one time was more effective but I didn’t purchase the right stuff on the previous turns, I was going against a US Pac strat, and couldn’t follow-up do to poor purchasing and non-com moves.  I did however take Cus and hold Wcan for 2 turns but in that game Germany was in real trouble as well.

But these attempts have helped me work out some of the bugs and recognized when it may be possible and when it may not, and why I’m fairly certain it could work consistantly given the right circumstances and b/c you never do anything to commit to it until J4 the worst case is your J1-3 moves are still great for going after Russia.