It seems to be a popular view that Japan is wasting its money if it buys a complex before it has maxed out the first one (i.e. is transporting 8 units/turn to the mainland). However, I am of the opinion that 2 tran 1 IC–this is assuming $1 bid to Japan–is the optimal J1 purchase for getting units to the mainland quickly. There was an old thread (sorry, I couldn’t find the link on my first search and I’m too lazy to look harder) that had some calculations to this effect, but for the short version, consider:
—If you build 3 tran on J1, you can put 8 units in Asia on your second turn. However, with 2 tran 1 IC you can get 9 units there: 6 from your three transports, and three more from your complex. With a 2 IC purchase it’s down to 8 again, one from your transport and 6 from your complexes. (I’m assuming throughout that the UK killed your transport in SZ 59 so that you only have one to start with.) So if you’re trying to get as many units to Asia on J2 as you can, 2 tran 1 IC is the way to go.
—4 tran on J1, using a bid of $2, is also a good way to start fast. However, in this case your capacity outstrips your income; it will be a couple rounds before you can actually get new units fast enough to keep your transports busy. The 2 tran 1 IC buy is better optimized at keeping your production/transport capacity matched up with the number of units you can afford to produce. In particular, a 4 tran J1 purchase enables you to put as many as 10 units into Asia on J2 if you clean out Philippines, East Indies, Okinawa, and Wake, but then you run out of island units and can only make up to 8 new ones in Japan. So you get a lot of inf on J2 but it’s more of an anomaly, where the 2 tran 1 IC buy gives you a smoother and more continuous startup.
—As far as location, I like FIC the best. Kwang is farther from Moscow than either Fic or Man, so if you’re trying to put pressure on the Russians quickly you want either Fic or Man. You can supply plenty of troops to the northern area from Japan itself, so the complex is needed more on the southern end. Plus it enables you to get to Africa, Caucasus, etc better.
—So far I’ve been assuming KGF. In KJF you should certainly be a bit more hesitant about getting factories up quickly. However, I’ve found that a FIC complex, which is always where I build on J1 if I build a factory at all, can be very helpful in KJF. Ideally when defending against an American fleet you want to defend as far out as possible, e.g. with a fleet in the Caroline or even Solomon islands. However, if you’re forced to fall back, FIC is a great fallback point. The key thing about it is that it borders all three of your valuable islands. If you get in trouble you can fall back to SZ 36 and build more ships there to join your retreating fleet. Often this will be enough to prevent the Americans from taking any of those expensive islands right away. If your only factory is in Japan you’re forced to keep your navy farther north to incorporate the new builds, and the Americans have an easier time getting to the southern islands.
Australia IC
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@ncscswitch:
I am not going to post full blown counters here.
I would rather “shock and awe” someone trying this against me :-)
I always tell my opponents exactly what I’m thinking of doing (including branch possibilities and contingency plans) if they ask. I even volunteer information if I think I have the advantage.
(exception: tournaments and ladder games, but I will go into anything at length after the game is over)
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Here, since there are so many questions, this is what the board looks like on Japan 1:
***** Country: 1 *****
*** West Russia (Wru)
1 Arm
7 Inf
1 Art*** Caucasus (Cau)
1 IC
1 AA
1 Art
2 Ftr
3 Inf*** Russia (Mos)
1 IC
1 AA
2 Inf
1 Arm*** Yakut S.S.R. (Yak)
2 Inf*** Buryatia S.S.R. (Bry)
6 Inf*** Sinkiang (Sin)
4 Inf*** Greanland Seazone (GRN/Z2)
1 Sub***** Country: 2 *****
*** Western Europe (Weu)
1 AA
7 Inf
2 Arm
2 Ftr*** Southern Europe (Seu)
1 AA
1 IC
1 Inf*** Germany (Ger)
1 IC
1 AA
8 Inf*** Balkans (Blk)
1 Art
2 Inf
2 Arm*** Eastern Europe (Eeu)
3 Arm
2 Inf*** Karelia S.S.R. (Len)
1 Flag
1 Inf*** Ukraine S.S.R. (Ukr)
1 Inf*** Belorussia (Bel)
2 Inf*** Anglo Egypt (Egy)
1 Arm
1 Flag
2 Inf*** Libya (Lib)
1 Ftr
1 Bmb*** Algeria (Alg)
1 Inf
1 Art*** Baltic Seazone (BAL/Z5)
1 AC
2 Ftr
1 Trn
2 Sub
1 Des*** East Mediterian Seazone (EMD/Z15)
1 Trn
1 BB***** Country: 3 *****
*** Eastern Canada (Eca)
1 Arm
1 Inf*** United Kingdom (Gbr)
2 Inf
1 Art
1 Arm
1 IC
1 AA
5 Ftr
1 Bmb*** Persia (Per)
1 AA
3 Inf*** Union of South Africa (Saf)
1 Inf*** Australia (Aus)
1 Inf*** New Zealand (Nze)
1 Inf*** New Guinea (Ngu)
1 Flag
2 Inf*** Borneo (Bor)
2 Inf
1 Flag*** Hudson Bay Seazone (LAB/Z1)
1 Trn*** Greanland Seazone (GRN/Z2)
1 BB
1 Trn*** Borneo Seazon (BOR/Z48)
1 Trn*** Kwangtung Seazone (ECH/Z59)
1 Des
1 AC*** Hawaiian Seazone (EPO/Z52)
1 Ftr*** New Guinea Seazone (MEL/Z47)
1 Trn*** Solomon Islands Seazone (SOS/Z45)
1 Sub***** Country: 4 *****
*** Manchuria (Man)
1 Ftr
2 Inf*** Kwangtung (Kwa)
3 Inf*** French Indochina (Fic)
1 Ftr
2 Inf*** Solomon Islands (Sol)
1 Inf*** East Indies (Sum)
2 Inf*** Philippine Islands (Phi)
2 Inf*** Caroline Islands (Car)
1 Inf*** Okinawa (Oki)
1 Inf*** Wake Island (Wak)
1 Inf*** Japan (Jpn)
1 AA
1 IC
4 Inf
1 Art
1 Arm
1 Ftr
1 Bmb*** East Indies Seazone (JAV/Z37)
1 BB
2 Ftr
1 AC*** East Japan Seazone (EJS/Z60)
1 Trn
1 BB*** Carlonine Islands Seazone (MIC/Z50)
1 Ftr
1 Des
1 AC***** Country: 5 *****
*** Eastern United States (Eus)
1 IC
1 Art
1 Ftr
1 Arm
2 Inf
1 AA
1 Bmb*** China (Chi)
1 Ftr
2 Inf*** Sinkiang (Sin)
2 Inf*** Midway Island (Mid)
1 Inf*** Hawaiian Islands (Haw)
2 Inf
1 Ftr*** Alaska (Ala)
1 Inf*** Western United States (Wus)
1 AA
1 IC
1 Ftr
2 Inf*** Central United States (Cus)
2 Inf*** Eastern US Seazone (ECO/Z10)
1 Des
2 Trn*** West Panama Seazone (GLP/Z20)
1 Des*** Western US Seazone (WCO/Z55)
1 Trn
1 BB*** Hawaiian Seazone (EPO/Z52)
1 Ftr
1 AC
1 Sub***** Japan: 31 IPC *****
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Well, you have to make him choose. :) You can do a lot of real, significant and important damage to Japan with the allies on round 1. And you can set up a bigger threat to Japan on Round 2. By Japan Round 3 you could be looking at a decimated fleet 9 times over (decimation is the reducing by 10% so that would be 90%), no mainland holdings, and some of their islands already owned by the allies.
And you don’t even need to siphon troops from Russia to do it. Just the 10 already on that front could be used to see this leaving the rest for battleing Germany. Especially good if Germany buys her cute little aircraft carrier draining her income to the level of Russia’s on R1.
Jenn,
If you decimate something nine times over, there will be
1) 0.9 * 100 = 90
2) 0.9 * 90 = 81
3) 0.9 * 81 = 72.9
4) 0.9 * 72.9 = 65.61
5) 0.9 * 65.61 = 59.049
6) 0.9 * 59.049 = 53.1441
7) 0.9 * 53.1441 = 47.82969
8) 0.9 * 47.82969 = 43.046721
9) 0.9 * 43.046721 = 38.7420489I’ll happily take my 38.7 men up against your 10.
Even if we always round down, I’ll still take my 36 men up against your 10.
With rounding down, you would have to decimate 19 times to reduce 100 to less than 10.
Without rounding down, it would 22 decimations to get to less than 10 left.
Try 100 * (0.9)^9 for the equation you specified.
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the advantage of an aussie complex is that japan can’t really use it against you after they capture it and it could divert japan’s resources away from the mainland temporarily
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Whats the best way as Japan to counter the Australian complex?
Would it be to send some attack ships (subs like I usually build in a KJF and a destroyer for air protection) down and destroy any transports before they can fill with land units?
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Whats the best way as Japan to counter the Australian complex?
Would it be to send some attack ships (subs like I usually build in a KJF and a destroyer for air protection) down and destroy any transports before they can fill with land units?
If you are facing a big meaty guy with body armor and a big stick, you do not go out and get a big stick, and try to fight the big meaty guy. That is how you get hurt.
You either call the cops, or try to run him over with a hamster stampede, or something like that.
I am so profound, I forgot what I was going to say.
OR DID I?!!1!
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So the best way to counter the Australia IC is to b**** out?
Gotcha.
No really though, I understand. Thats kind of a good strategy for any nation though, just a bit hard to execute because Japan is spread out through islands.
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So the best way to counter the Australia IC is to b**** out?
Gotcha.
No really though, I understand. Thats kind of a good strategy for any nation though, just a bit hard to execute because Japan is spread out through islands.
Mm hm.
Australia is an awesome naval base that gives the Allies a great deal of freedom in the Pacific. But either US or the UK must come to the fight with some naval units. While they build naval units, Japan and Germany press the attack on Russia.
Japan’s position degrades very quickly after Australia gets going, but it is almost impossible for the Allies to capture Japan itself. Far before Japan is in any real danger (with a stack of infantry and fighters on it), Germany and Japan should be able to make Russia fall. From that point, it’s really Japan and Germany vs. UK and US. In a 9 VC game, that means that Germany and Japan together have a deathgrip on 8 VCs (all in Europe and mainland Asia, probably including India, Karelia, and Moscow), but have probably lost the Phillipine Islands.
Since Japan cannot be broken, and Germany cannot be broken, the victory should go to the Axis, with a navy and air force fueled by Russian IPCs, and a positional advantage that allows Germany to threaten London itself as well as threatening Africa and Brazil with only minimal IPCs invested.
Of course, the Allies are not locked into defending Australia, but any IPCs spent there are IPCs not used elsewhere in those important early turns.
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