@Curtmungus your honor of being more famous than me is quite deserved. I salute you.
DAAK
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Is it just me, or does DAAK roll a considerable amount of '1’s lately?
tournament game, we have 3 consecutive SBRs by 3 different nations all doing ‘1’ damage. That’s 0.4096% chance of happening. Follow that up with 2 consecutive defense rolls of ‘1’ against a force destined to have 83% chance of success and we have 0.000104858% chance.
I think next game I play should be run on Frood. :P It can email results and last I checked, it didn’t have 5 '1’s come up consecutively!
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Jen,
I agree with you. That many 1’s consecutively is extremely unlikely, and strains the credibility of the system. I don’t know much about frood, but I’m willing to learn, if it’s a better system.
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In the strat test that I have coming up with Amon I am going to use DAAK to give it a test under game conditions and see how it does.
As far as DAAK and dice… I have seen a pretty fair number of pretty serious fracks in my current game with Mech at DAAK also. 2 major ones against Germany, and one major one against UK, all in the same game, all in the span of a couple of turns…
(Give you an idea how screwed up the dice have been…
Germany has almost the only navy in the Altantic except for a newly built US AC and TRN
Half of all FIGs on the board are Russian. -
@ncscswitch:
In the strat test that I have coming up with Amon I am going to use DAAK to give it a test under game conditions and see how it does.
As far as DAAK and dice… I have seen a pretty fair number of pretty serious fracks in my current game with Mech at DAAK also. 2 major ones against Germany, and one major one against UK, all in the same game, all in the span of a couple of turns…
(Give you an idea how screwed up the dice have been…
Germany has almost the only navy in the Altantic except for a newly built US AC and TRN
Half of all FIGs on the board are Russian.Exactly! I think something happened to the code when they converted the old classic dicey to revised dicey.
Frood’s is really nice. It’s the same layout as DAAK’s, except the dice are more random, it’s color coded, on calculator mode it will give you percentage chance of every possible income (so you can guestimate what you have left) and it can now email results.
Personally I think we should alter the tournament rules to allow usage of FROOD or DAAK, which ever the player wants. Especially since I still don’t know how to use the native axisandallies.org system.
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I am going to test DAAK under game conditions with Amon in the near future (just waiting for Mech to decide if he is going to resign that game or not).
I want a chance to test Frood under actual game conditions before I make any changes to the Tournament rules.
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Ummm….
Play Low Luck or No Luck.I find it hilarious that I constantly see comments about dice (including by myself) and how they did this or that, yet everyone still plays ADS.
Why??? Well they like the idea of Rambo out their or it is the real test of strat to deal with “worst case” scenerios and no plan survives once you get hit…
Haven’t any of you played Yahtzee. I can’t count the number I’ve times I’ve laid down 4 or 5 of the same number. It happens!!! And is very common.
Simply changing dice rollers will do NOTHING!!!
If you don’t want to deal with the good or the bad then play LL.
You can even modify it and play LL with normal SBR rules using the In-house roller for bombing raids so you don’t have to deal with stupid LL SBR’s. But simply thinking by changing to Frood or FoE or AAMC or where ever is going to make dice more fair is ridiculous.
I find myself more and more inching towards LL for revised, at least until I really learn what strats are good and what are bad. I’ve had my share of being “dice’d” including two recent games with a DAAK member where I failed miserabley to take Egy on G1 (with a bid in Lib), but then I get some good rolls against NoMercy in a game here.
What happens in the first game with Frood when something in R1 or G1 doesn’t go as planned? We need a new dice server!!! LOL!
Sorry guys, just having some fun with you, but there are ALREADY Alternatives out there. Some may not like them but you have to weigh the pros/cons.
Do you want more middle of the road battles or not?
Now even if you do find a “more fair” dicey are you going to start to complain b/c strafing is too easy now, or b/c someone worked out the numbers and found the “optimum” moves to make?
cough LowLuck cough :-D
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I agree, Darth. I think all future tournaments should be Low Luck or No Luck. :)
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How does one play low luck?
I’d be interested to see someone roll 1000 dice using DAAK, and tally up the percentage each number was rolled.
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Low Luck guarantees hits. depending on how much attack power and defense power is involved on each side, for each 6 its 1 guaranted hit or something…
I have no problem with the ADS on Daak… I only dis-like the dice in SBR in daak… bombers are ussualyl shot at a high rate… and if they arn’t shot down… I Find for all my SBR runs I get like 4 damage, 80% of the time.
I like to complain about the dice at times yes. especially vs Darth, grr to them dice.
I find it will get to boring with Low-Luck…At least with ADS, every game will have its differences and be random which is a good thing, like Switchs game with Mech for instance… all the figs being Russia… wasn’t for ADS that definetly wouldn’t have been the case.
If you play in real person, the dice are just as bad and we complain just as bad…LOL
I only have 2 things again DAAK and they are:
SBR runs… and attacking Infantry (attacking Infantry barely get 1’s in numbers) yet 2-4 of em in a bunch with 6 fts will get 1’s when they didn’t need to cause they had the power with them.
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This is an interesting place for a LL versus ADS debate.
If you like complaining about dice, by all means go ahead and roll a bunch in your spare time and complain about it all you want. I just don’t see why it’s more fun to do so by ruining a perfectly good game that might otherwise have been won by clear superior strategy.
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Merc: There is nothing random about 9 attacking infantry missing 5 times in a row. That happens on DAAK, it never happens anywhere else to my knowledge.
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Sure it does. Given fair dice, it will happen once every 3657.26 times you give it a chance to happen. Which isn’t a very large number. In fact, given a string of single die rolls, the number of times you have roll it in order to see 45 rolls in a row without getting a single ‘1’ is much less than that. It’s not unexpected to see at least a few bizarre “coincidence” like that in the course of any game where dice have such an effect.
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I agree, Darth. I think all future tournaments should be Low Luck or No Luck. :)
I would rather deal with a thousand fracks than play LL.
And being honest… if someone wants a LL Tournament, they can run it. The Spring Singles and Fall 2-on-2 will remain ADS so long as I am administering them.
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Rolling 1000 6-sided dice:
1, 6, 6, 3, 5, 6, 4, 6, 1, 3, 3, 1, 5, 4, 4, 1, 1, 5, 3, 2, 1, 4, 1, 2, 4, 5, 2, 6, 2, 4, 1, 3, 4, 1, 5, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 5, 4, 2, 3, 2, 5, 3, 2, 4, 6, 4, 5, 3, 5, 6, 1, 4, 1, 1, 5, 5, 2, 1, 2, 2, 6, 4, 2, 2, 5, 3, 6, 3, 4, 2, 4, 3, 5, 6, 6, 4, 4, 4, 1, 2, 4, 1, 5, 4, 1, 4, 2, 2, 4, 4, 4, 4, 1, 6, 5, 5, 2, 4, 1, 6, 5, 5, 2, 4, 4, 2, 1, 2, 6, 1, 3, 3, 2, 2, 1, 3, 5, 3, 4, 3, 6, 2, 6, 6, 1, 4, 5, 2, 1, 6, 2, 6, 4, 4, 3, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 2, 6, 2, 3, 2, 6, 5, 6, 2, 4, 1, 2, 4, 2, 5, 3, 4, 6, 2, 5, 5, 6, 2, 2, 2, 1, 6, 5, 6, 4, 5, 1, 3, 6, 4, 5, 5, 2, 4, 1, 6, 5, 2, 4, 1, 1, 6, 4, 6, 2, 3, 5, 1, 4, 1, 3, 4, 6, 1, 4, 3, 5, 4, 6, 5, 2, 4, 4, 3, 2, 4, 3, 1, 6, 6, 1, 1, 5, 5, 6, 1, 1, 5, 1, 5, 5, 4, 2, 4, 4, 6, 1, 3, 3, 6, 1, 4, 3, 4, 1, 5, 2, 3, 5, 2, 3, 6, 2, 2, 5, 2, 2, 5, 6, 3, 3, 5, 6, 5, 2, 3, 4, 3, 6, 1, 2, 1, 5, 5, 4, 6, 4, 6, 2, 2, 1, 5, 2, 3, 6, 6, 4, 1, 5, 3, 3, 1, 1, 2, 6, 3, 5, 3, 6, 5, 4, 1, 5, 2, 6, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3, 5, 3, 2, 1, 5, 1, 6, 3, 1, 4, 5, 3, 5, 6, 5, 4, 3, 3, 6, 2, 1, 4, 3, 6, 6, 3, 2, 1, 5, 3, 4, 4, 6, 5, 4, 5, 5, 3, 1, 5, 1, 6, 2, 5, 6, 6, 2, 2, 3, 2, 4, 4, 6, 1, 3, 5, 3, 5, 5, 2, 2, 3, 5, 1, 1, 3, 5, 5, 6, 5, 4, 6, 4, 6, 5, 3, 5, 1, 5, 2, 3, 3, 6, 2, 3, 3, 6, 6, 1, 5, 1, 2, 1, 6, 2, 1, 2, 1, 6, 1, 6, 4, 1, 4, 3, 6, 6, 2, 6, 5, 4, 2, 1, 3, 3, 4, 5, 3, 3, 6, 1, 3, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 3, 3, 5, 3, 6, 6, 6, 3, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4, 2, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 3, 6, 5, 2, 1, 1, 3, 2, 4, 5, 5, 2, 2, 1, 6, 4, 1, 6, 3, 4, 5, 2, 2, 3, 6, 3, 3, 4, 1, 6, 6, 4, 5, 4, 5, 5, 5, 1, 1, 2, 6, 5, 3, 1, 6, 3, 5, 1, 2, 1, 4, 1, 3, 5, 3, 2, 1, 6, 6, 2, 5, 5, 5, 4, 2, 4, 3, 6, 4, 3, 1, 3, 2, 4, 4, 2, 6, 2, 2, 2, 3, 5, 2, 6, 3, 5, 1, 4, 4, 6, 6, 3, 5, 4, 6, 6, 1, 2, 5, 5, 5, 6, 2, 6, 3, 5, 2, 3, 1, 3, 4, 4, 1, 6, 3, 4, 5, 4, 1, 3, 4, 6, 5, 2, 4, 5, 1, 4, 1, 6, 2, 5, 5, 4, 5, 2, 2, 6, 4, 3, 2, 2, 1, 3, 2, 4, 6, 6, 2, 6, 2, 5, 6, 1, 1, 3, 5, 2, 1, 5, 2, 2, 4, 1, 5, 2, 2, 1, 2, 6, 4, 3, 1, 5, 6, 3, 2, 5, 2, 4, 5, 4, 3, 4, 4, 3, 6, 3, 5, 6, 2, 6, 2, 5, 6, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1, 6, 5, 2, 4, 4, 4, 6, 3, 5, 3, 1, 3, 5, 4, 6, 2, 4, 3, 6, 4, 4, 6, 6, 2, 5, 1, 3, 6, 2, 4, 1, 2, 3, 3, 5, 1, 6, 5, 3, 5, 1, 3, 1, 6, 6, 1, 1, 4, 3, 1, 2, 6, 6, 1, 2, 5, 1, 4, 5, 3, 2, 5, 4, 5, 1, 3, 5, 1, 1, 1, 5, 2, 4, 6, 2, 4, 6, 2, 1, 2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 1, 3, 1, 5, 6, 3, 4, 3, 1, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 1, 5, 2, 4, 4, 3, 1, 4, 5, 2, 6, 1, 4, 1, 3, 6, 4, 4, 3, 5, 3, 2, 1, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 2, 4, 4, 2, 2, 5, 6, 6, 1, 1, 3, 6, 2, 2, 6, 6, 3, 3, 5, 6, 1, 2, 5, 3, 3, 5, 3, 2, 1, 1, 5, 2, 5, 2, 4, 6, 6, 3, 6, 1, 3, 2, 6, 5, 4, 6, 4, 6, 3, 3, 6, 3, 4, 4, 5, 1, 3, 1, 2, 3, 2, 1, 5, 6, 2, 2, 6, 2, 5, 5, 3, 2, 6, 3, 6, 3, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 2, 1, 2, 5, 5, 2, 1, 6, 4, 4, 1, 4, 2, 1, 6, 4, 6, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 3, 1, 2, 6, 4, 5, 4, 5, 6, 6, 4, 4, 2, 4, 4, 5, 1, 5, 3, 3, 5, 2, 1, 5, 3, 3, 3, 1, 6, 1, 6, 3, 1, 1, 2, 4, 6, 5, 3, 5, 5, 6, 3, 6, 3, 1, 5, 4, 5, 1, 1, 4, 3, 1, 2, 6, 4, 4, 6, 3, 4, 6, 5, 5, 6, 6, 3, 6, 5, 5, 5, 3, 5, 2, 3, 2, 2, 2, 5, 1, 3, 6, 5, 5, 1, 1, 4, 4, 4, 4, 1, 2, 3, 6, 1, 3, 6, 4, 3, 4, 3, 1, 1, 1, 3, 4, 2 -
I call Shennanigans!!!
There are too many 1’s in a row!
LOL!
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I’m starting to think Low Luck is the way to go :-D I certainly use it to test strategies against myself to see what you can expect.
But there is something to say about ADS. I got into the game partially because of the luck aspect. It is akin to gambling. You play poker because there is a chance element involved, but a lot of skill as well. A&A is not chess, where the results are rigorously dependent on your previous moves, and low luck starts to go down that road. The dice fracks and calculating for them takes a lot of balls to deal with, which is what makes it exciting to me.
Personally, I don’t care much about dice fracks one way or another. I will make apparent remarks like :-o look at those dice and stuff, but I take bad dice in stride. Suck it up as a loss, and keep going. Look at the overall picture - the dice should come out as you expect in the long run. Those who win in the long run have the better strategy. Those who use Low Luck take the shortcut to that destination, but it’s not as exciting.
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thank you Trihero,
I will never play a LL game as long as I live. You are correct if you want to test strategies on yourself or something.
But for gameplay…definetly more execiting to have random dice… sometimes them dice just make your hands sweat before you click that submit button… trust me.
makes it very execiting. :-D
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You know the other things about ADS…
It can move the game in unpredicatable ways, and challenge players more. For example, who in their right mind would ever PLAN on German Naval Superiority in the Atlantic and Med after 5 turns?
Also, when you get hit for a couple of major dice fracks in a game, and you still are able to pull off the victory, it feels pretty darn good!
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I’m starting to think Low Luck is the way to go :-D I certainly use it to test strategies against myself to see what you can expect.
But there is something to say about ADS. I got into the game partially because of the luck aspect. It is akin to gambling. You play poker because there is a chance element involved, but a lot of skill as well. A&A is not chess, where the results are rigorously dependent on your previous moves, and low luck starts to go down that road. The dice fracks and calculating for them takes a lot of balls to deal with, which is what makes it exciting to me.
Personally, I don’t care much about dice fracks one way or another. I will make apparent remarks like :-o look at those dice and stuff, but I take bad dice in stride. Suck it up as a loss, and keep going. Look at the overall picture - the dice should come out as you expect in the long run. Those who win in the long run have the better strategy. Those who use Low Luck take the shortcut to that destination, but it’s not as exciting.
Here is the main point in LL vs ADS. With low or no luck, you KNOW that an attack where you have a 51-60% to win will NEVER lose. Despite having a 49% to 40% chance to lose, you never will. So you can take RISKY attacks and do them.
With dice, you CANNOT do so. You have to make touch choices, either to ADD infantry to make the attack safe, WHICH MAY CAUSE NO ATTACK SOMEWHERE ELSE, or avoid doing the attack. So LL is NOT A&A. By eliminating risk, you change the strategy portion of the game. Conservative vs agressive. Multiple risky attacks vs one conservative attack.
LL is not true A&A.
Squirecam
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You know, I had this argument before :-) A rather LONG version too.
Agent Smith (LL Only) and me (ADS Only) went at it for weeks on the Classic boards. And it got rather heated at times.
Just figured i would metnion it since AS put out probably the best arguments that can be made for LL. I still disagree with him. But he did a darn fine job of trying to make his case for LL.
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