• Thanks for your advice.
    Indeed I forgot to mention the Sinkiang IC. You speak of the threat of Japanese forces breaking through south/centre/north, but if I were Japan I wouldn’t pay too much IPC for  forces going after Russia if a huge US and a less huge GB naval fleet are sitting in my own backyard (Jap island) eager to take my capital. I believe my opponent will go on the defensive, and that’s what you want, no?
    Stalemate Japan and kill it softly, shifting US and GB IPC to Germany turn per turn. If Jap is kicked off the mainland, my goal would be reached. Then I would send in UK and US fighters towards Russia to boost the USSR inf.
    Would you guys also send some US navy to defend the GB navy around GB in the beginning?


  • @Mr.Bo:

    Would you guys also send some US navy to defend the GB navy around GB in the beginning?

    it depends where do you want to unload your troops
    are you going to  land them in Africa-Mediterranian, or Norway- Karelia-Archangelsk
    but one carrier is enough(16 IPC)
    and you have then:
    1 bat
    1 des
    1 AC
    2 fig
    1 sub
    4 tra

    but always look first where the Luftwaffe is; so you don`t get surprised

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Funny, I often thought that a good Jap strategy is a holding maneuver on J1, build TWO industrial complexes then go duke nukem.


  • @Jennifer:

    Funny, I often thought that a good Jap strategy is a holding maneuver on J1, build TWO industrial complexes then go duke nukem.

    i am sorry can you explain me these with more simple words, my english is very poor
    i am not 100% sure that i understood what do you whant to say with these

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Basically buy getting two industrial complexes with Japan you can put a lot of units into Asia without tieing up your transports.  Then you can move your fleet out to take Hawaii, New Zealand, Australia or just move it towards the Med to attack the British/American fleets, if you feel inclined that way.  Or you can use them to move even MORE units into Asia.

    But if you build transports iwth Japan, then you HAVE to keep them in japan to move forces around.  You are also limited to 8 units built a turn instead of 14 as you would be able to build with 2 more industries.


  • The thing with building 2 complexes immediately is that it’s not as flexible as having transports, and makes getting troops from the islands (free troops!) take longer. You only have 1 starting transport as Japan since the Kwangtung one sank earlier in the UK turn, and that isn’t nearly enough to take Hawaii/New Zealand/etc as well as take free troops from Okinawa, Wake Island, East Indies, Philippines, etc.

    Building 2 complexes immediately is as competitive in terms of getting troops to Moscow as starting with a buy of 3 transports is, but there’s just no flexibility. You can’t invade Buryatia hard on J2, you can’t even make a ghost threat on W. Canada, you can’t land in Africa en force. And also it’s not such a big deal, but sometimes your naval attack on Harbor goes south, so building those transports gives you important fodder if the Americans are tempted to attack you; otherwise you have to build an entire naval forces from scratch and have no money to use those complexes anyways.

    I’m not saying that building 2 complexes is a bad or nonviable strategy, I’m just saying that there are definitely drawbacks to it and it should not be done in all circumstances. A stack in Buryatia, an IC in India, are good indications not to start with 2 complexes.

    The bonus of increasing the production limits to 14 with 2 complexes immediately is inconsequential. You didn’t make 42 IPCs on J1 to make use of 14 building spaces. Even if you did have 42 IPCs, you do not have 4 transports to take the 8 men off of Japan. I find it good to start with 2-3 transports and slowly add 1 complex per turn after that. That way you have plenty of transports to go wherever you want and grab troops from islands, as well as increase your production limit as you have the money to use it.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Obviously with an IC in India you wouldn;'t go ith two complexes.  why bother?  england just build one for you!!!

    Otherwise, two complexes really open your possibilities.  now you dont ahve to use transports to hit asia, you can use them for islands.  You can build 4 inf, 2 tanks right on the mainland (3 transports worth of units) plus whatever your transports grab for you.


  • i agree with trihero

    in my Japan game i would try to avoid in any way buying the IC, transports and land units from Japan and the neighboring islands are enough to deal with China, Sinkiang, Buryatia and India, because there are also 5 fighters(one fell in Hawaii) and 1 bomber; not to mention two battleships


  • I’d never think of going KJF in a game where I would play for winning (and not for fun or ‘learning’ the game) and there is no time limit. I find KGF easier to orchestrate, straightforward and a safer path to Allied victory. However KJF really interests me and I’ve spend some time researching and trying to master it.

    These are some of my thoughts on KJF. Some are very basic.

    1. In order to execute a KJF plan the Allies must take Japan out with the US through the Pacific. They can’t take them out from mainland Asia only even if UK and US build their Sinkiang and India ICs. The double ICs are good for slowing Japan down in a KGF game, though.

    2. So the US MUST go fully naval on the Pacific and abandon the Atlantic. There might be a configuration where the US somehow establishes an African shuck with their starting Atlantic fleet.

    3. The US can try to sink the Jap navy. In order to do that they need to build an offensive fleet and will probably come from the Alaskan sea zone. They may need to build an Alaskan IC.

    4. They can go island hopping (building a defensive fleet), diminishing Japan’s economy and eventually building a complex in one of the high IPC islands. For me the weakness of island hopping is that Japan can go for a ‘strafing your fleet(s) of your TRNs’ strategy as a counter.

    5. The UK’s primary concern is to help Russia against Germany. However they must also contribute to a KJF. They have many options: Build an Indian IC (put pressure on the Asian mainland). Try to preserve the Pacific fleet. Build an Australian IC to reinforce it and expand the Allied naval game (either combining with the US or working separately). Park the fleet off the African coast and build a complex in SAfrica (and threaten Jap territories). Move the UK bmr in position to threaten Japan’s sea zones. Kill the Jap sub and reinforce US Hawaiian fleet with the ftr. Kill the Kwantung transport. The more they spend against Japan the better for Germany.

    6. Against KJF it’s highly advantageous for Japan to build 3 TRNs on J1 in order to strengthen their navy.

    7. My main concern with KJF is that I can never think of a round 1 situation where it would seem preferable to a KGF. Agreed, Japan not attacking PH could lure you to a KJF but that occurs on J1. What about G1?
    If the German buys 2-3 TRNs can you be comfortable with KJF? If he spends nothing on ships isn’t it the best time for KGF (no opposition in the Atlantic – the Baltic open)? Only if he buys the AC I would consider KJF but even then I think KGF is safer.


  • @ShadowHAwk:

    Germany is planning for a KGF strat and is building defenses and not doing well VS russia.

    Germany could predict the Allied plan from certain R1 actions (Buyratia stack, Russian ftr positioning, arm in Yakut, R1 attacks and buys, inf towards India). I don’t know what is the optimal R1 for a KJF but I think that the Allies would expect or even depend on some early Russian contribution to a KJF opening.
    Even so, I think the German buy is always inf (absolutely necessary against KGF and for going for Russia if KJF) and most probably some navy which is good against both KGF and KJF.
    About not doing well vs Russia, I think there’s too little time to tell (only R1 and G1) this is happening. Even then, isn’t it the best time to launch KGF?

    @ShadowHAwk:

    Island hopping is the best strat to start with the US. You dont need a huge fleet to do it just a huge defence ( jet power :D )
    And if you manage to keep the UK carrier alive combining it with the US fleet every turn gives a nice defence power there.
    Also the islands are weakly defended and hard to reclaim and bring in a lot of IPC’s.
    Less japan IPC’s is slower progress on the mainland and with the low initial cost you can combine it with a KGF strat.

    I have only playtested one island hopping strategy that I found on the net which included a UK1 Aus complex + preserving all UK boats, and a UK2 BB and ftr buy in Aus. Those 49$ proved too much and Germany took Russia.

    When island hopping do you go to the Solomons on US2? Do you build an Indian factory? How many ACs do you buy for the US? I’ve seen somewhere that you buy a DD and 2 loaded TRNs every turn for the US (after US1 or 2, can’t remember), is this valid?

    Also, I don’t really understand combining KGF and KJF for me it’s always the one or the other.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    CD:

    Russia doesn’t have to do anything different on Round 1 in a KJF game.  R2 is a different story, but by then the cat’s out of the bag.

    Also, I’d say you almost HAVE to have an Indian IC and maybe even a Sink IC.

    I’d buy 1 carrier, 1 transport, 1 fighter, 1 artillery, 1 infantry every round iwth America.  This is a huge defense and a decent island hopping force.  Get 3 or 4 carriers and 12 transports (over time) and you can do some massive damage to Japan.

    However, anyone ever wonder if you could fool Japan into thinking you’ll do a SFE landing instead of main island?  The trick here would be to forgo island hopping, build a fleet where you actually DO SFE landings for a few turns (while increasing your tranny supplies) then as a “surprise” go to Japan instead of SFE.


  • Shadow & Jen,

    Do you always stack 6inf in Bury on R1, regardless of KJF or KGF?

  • 2007 AAR League

    @cdassak:

    Shadow & Jen,

    Do you always stack 6inf in Bury on R1, regardless of KJF or KGF?

    By leaving Bury empty it allows Japan to leave Manchuria empty on their first turn since its not at threat by any Soviet troops


  • If Bury is vacant, I’ll grab it on J1.

    But to be honest, I have gotten so used to “Pearl Heavy”, forces in Bury, and China not going as well as planned, that I automatically think of a Manch landing in NCM on J1 instead of a Bury landing in Combat…


  • The 6 units in Bury are a 1 turn delay on 1 IPC.

    On R2, those forces start retreating (and if the US landed planes there, they get left behind and destroyed).

    Japan starts landing in Bury, and moves their China cluster into Sinkiang on J2.

    Now those Bury Forces are in danger of being cut off, so they retreat again in R3 to Novo.  J3 Japan advnaces to Yakut and reinforces Sinkiang.

    Now those 6 units from Bury either retreat to Moscow in R4, or get destroyed.

    Stacking Bury does block that 1 IPC for 1 round.  But in doing so, they set up a situation where those units can do nothign but retreat or be destroyed all the way to Moscow.

    There are other uses for that INF where it actually is a threat instead of just a “reduce speed” sign.


  • I disagree with six inf in Burytia.  If Japan commits to killing them, USSR is defenseless.  Moving more infantry east simply means a weaker western front.  USSR solves Japan’s logistical problem of getting infantry to the front.


  • Well I think most KJF theory now revolves around planting at least 1 fighter in addition to the 6 inf stack. That makes it tough for the Japanese to justify when they start with just 1 transport, which is normally what happens.

  • 2007 AAR League

    If you do the French indo china attack with UK, japan doesn´t have forces to do the buryatia strike and pearl.

  • 2007 AAR League

    47% chance of surviving with the Fig (uk) adn 57% of mutual destruction. (witch is fine btw)


  • Nix has had some good success with his FIC open.

    Removes a Japan FIG (making it as valuable a strike as Ukraine for Russia on R1), destroys land forces preventing any chance of India fallign on J1, no matter how much AF he brings (assuming TRN off Kwang is sunk by DST/AC combo), and also weakens the attack on China.

    And goddess forbid the UK FIG lives and lands in China…  1 less FIG, 1-2 less INF for that attack by Japan… and against two 2’s and two 4’s…  Japan can win, but they will be THIN in Central Asia, non-existent in Soutern Asia, and possibly with Russia on their doorstep threatening Manch in northern Asia.  And still the US Pearl Counter, and some pesky UK ships around Australia to deal with…

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