Hi guys,
I’ve seen a lot of discussion upon a KJF game, but all the advice is spread out…
Anyway, I’d like to try this one next game (next week), since I’ve won the last dozen of times with the KGF, and it does get boring after a while.
So…
Soory, something went wrong… Full text:
Hi guys,
I’ve seen a lot of discussion upon a KJF game, but all the advice is spread out…
Anyway, I’d like to try this one next game (next week), since I’ve won the last dozen of times with the KGF, and it does get boring after a while.
So…
Has anyone ever succeeded in a KJF? By the way, we play the basic stuff, no NA’s or bidding.
Thanks in advance!
Yes, I got some new ideas from a game I just played…
This is what I propose:
Have Russia and UK go “KGF”, stall Japan wherever possible but focus on getting your hands on German wealthy territories. Have US use their initial boats to contest Africa to keep UKs income up. Conserve and unite the pacific UK fleet. Unite the pearl fleet and add new elements to that US fleet using most of the US ipcs. If pearl was attacked, counterattack if possible. If that is not possible, I’m inclined to believe this tactic is not feasible.
If money and circumstances permit you can build a UK factory in either India, SA or Australia. That’s highly conditional. What you must do, however, is use the british pacific fleet to exploit undefended or lightly defended Jap islands. All this while the US fleet stages outside Alaska/Canada. That will force Japan to make landings in Bury and possibly fend off US landings. Keep adding fleet elements to the US fleet and move troops to W.Canada.
It is all a matter of balance, send just enough troops to secure or make Germany lose more IPCs than they gain in Africa. Have UK/Russia keep Germany in a stalemate. Keep the pressure up on the Canadian fleet.
If Japan moves away from Japan it opens up a possbility for a direct invasion so make sure the US fleet has a few transports, troops and air units to pose a real threat. With this threat the UK fleet operating south should have pretty much free hands to take what they want. Japan should never be able to afford to split their fleet or move it south to attack. (Watch out for strafes that do not pull them out of position)
Hopefully Japan will be busy dealing with US while their income slowly decreases and UKs increases. At the right time they might be pushed out of the Asian mainland. While Germany are in no way endangered at this point, I don’t see them posing an imminent threat to Russia either. I’m going to give this a try myself some time in the near future.
i think that UK has to do at least something in the pacific
it isnt easy, beacuse of the Japan´s Arsenal but UK has a potential there
there are hundreds of possibilities so just make few and choose the best and then try
i´ve tried it lots of times but with NA, these how is much easier because i have Colonial Garrison but i still had excellent results
i think that building a navy in the pacific with UK is a fine move-now its just to the player to choose one of the many possibilities-that´s why i like UK-in each game you can play something new
just think about it, you will come up to dozens of excellent ideas
@Sankt:
Yes, I got some new ideas from a game I just played…
This is what I propose:
Have Russia and UK go “KGF”, stall Japan wherever possible but focus on getting your hands on German wealthy territories. Have US use their initial boats to contest Africa to keep UKs income up. Conserve and unite the pacific UK fleet. Unite the pearl fleet and add new elements to that US fleet using most of the US ipcs. If pearl was attacked, counterattack if possible. If that is not possible, I’m inclined to believe this tactic is not feasible.
If money and circumstances permit you can build a UK factory in either India, SA or Australia. That’s highly conditional. What you must do, however, is use the british pacific fleet to exploit undefended or lightly defended Jap islands. All this while the US fleet stages outside Alaska/Canada. That will force Japan to make landings in Bury and possibly fend off US landings. Keep adding fleet elements to the US fleet and move troops to W.Canada.
It is all a matter of balance, send just enough troops to secure or make Germany lose more IPCs than they gain in Africa. Have UK/Russia keep Germany in a stalemate. Keep the pressure up on the Canadian fleet.
If Japan moves away from Japan it opens up a possbility for a direct invasion so make sure the US fleet has a few transports, troops and air units to pose a real threat. With this threat the UK fleet operating south should have pretty much free hands to take what they want. Japan should never be able to afford to split their fleet or move it south to attack. (Watch out for strafes that do not pull them out of position)
Hopefully Japan will be busy dealing with US while their income slowly decreases and UKs increases. At the right time they might be pushed out of the Asian mainland. While Germany are in no way endangered at this point, I don’t see them posing an imminent threat to Russia either. I’m going to give this a try myself some time in the near future.
If you don’t put an IC in India early on in a KJF strategy Japan will take it and you won’t be able to take it back without massive Russian support because Japan will probably have an IC on the Mainland and if they break through the Sinkiang IC (which you didn’t mention but is needed in a KJF) because of lack of support then they will have a big navy because of the Naval Race with the US you are proposing and if Russia went after the valuble German territories then the Eastern Front will be empty then your KJF strategy failed. :-)
If you don’t put an IC in India early on in a KJF strategy Japan will take it and you won’t be able to take it back without massive Russian support because Japan will probably have an IC on the Mainland and if they break through the Sinkiang IC (which you didn’t mention but is needed in a KJF) because of lack of support then they will have a big navy because of the Naval Race with the US you are proposing and if Russia went after the valuble German territories then the Eastern Front will be empty then your KJF strategy failed. :-)
Well, you just saved me the hassle of playtesting it. :-P
Though, losing India doesn’t seem like a big sacrifice to me. I’m not a big fan of buying early ICs with Japan myself, so that might be a way to counter it. India is easily retaken though with all Jap forces bound up in Bury. Unfortunately, you’re probably right. KJF doesn’t work, and there’s probably a reason why.
Thanks for your advice.
Indeed I forgot to mention the Sinkiang IC. You speak of the threat of Japanese forces breaking through south/centre/north, but if I were Japan I wouldn’t pay too much IPC for forces going after Russia if a huge US and a less huge GB naval fleet are sitting in my own backyard (Jap island) eager to take my capital. I believe my opponent will go on the defensive, and that’s what you want, no?
Stalemate Japan and kill it softly, shifting US and GB IPC to Germany turn per turn. If Jap is kicked off the mainland, my goal would be reached. Then I would send in UK and US fighters towards Russia to boost the USSR inf.
Would you guys also send some US navy to defend the GB navy around GB in the beginning?
Would you guys also send some US navy to defend the GB navy around GB in the beginning?
it depends where do you want to unload your troops
are you going to land them in Africa-Mediterranian, or Norway- Karelia-Archangelsk
but one carrier is enough(16 IPC)
and you have then:
1 bat
1 des
1 AC
2 fig
1 sub
4 tra
but always look first where the Luftwaffe is; so you don`t get surprised
Funny, I often thought that a good Jap strategy is a holding maneuver on J1, build TWO industrial complexes then go duke nukem.
Funny, I often thought that a good Jap strategy is a holding maneuver on J1, build TWO industrial complexes then go duke nukem.
i am sorry can you explain me these with more simple words, my english is very poor
i am not 100% sure that i understood what do you whant to say with these
Basically buy getting two industrial complexes with Japan you can put a lot of units into Asia without tieing up your transports. Then you can move your fleet out to take Hawaii, New Zealand, Australia or just move it towards the Med to attack the British/American fleets, if you feel inclined that way. Or you can use them to move even MORE units into Asia.
But if you build transports iwth Japan, then you HAVE to keep them in japan to move forces around. You are also limited to 8 units built a turn instead of 14 as you would be able to build with 2 more industries.
The thing with building 2 complexes immediately is that it’s not as flexible as having transports, and makes getting troops from the islands (free troops!) take longer. You only have 1 starting transport as Japan since the Kwangtung one sank earlier in the UK turn, and that isn’t nearly enough to take Hawaii/New Zealand/etc as well as take free troops from Okinawa, Wake Island, East Indies, Philippines, etc.
Building 2 complexes immediately is as competitive in terms of getting troops to Moscow as starting with a buy of 3 transports is, but there’s just no flexibility. You can’t invade Buryatia hard on J2, you can’t even make a ghost threat on W. Canada, you can’t land in Africa en force. And also it’s not such a big deal, but sometimes your naval attack on Harbor goes south, so building those transports gives you important fodder if the Americans are tempted to attack you; otherwise you have to build an entire naval forces from scratch and have no money to use those complexes anyways.
I’m not saying that building 2 complexes is a bad or nonviable strategy, I’m just saying that there are definitely drawbacks to it and it should not be done in all circumstances. A stack in Buryatia, an IC in India, are good indications not to start with 2 complexes.
The bonus of increasing the production limits to 14 with 2 complexes immediately is inconsequential. You didn’t make 42 IPCs on J1 to make use of 14 building spaces. Even if you did have 42 IPCs, you do not have 4 transports to take the 8 men off of Japan. I find it good to start with 2-3 transports and slowly add 1 complex per turn after that. That way you have plenty of transports to go wherever you want and grab troops from islands, as well as increase your production limit as you have the money to use it.
Obviously with an IC in India you wouldn;'t go ith two complexes. why bother? england just build one for you!!!
Otherwise, two complexes really open your possibilities. now you dont ahve to use transports to hit asia, you can use them for islands. You can build 4 inf, 2 tanks right on the mainland (3 transports worth of units) plus whatever your transports grab for you.
i agree with trihero
in my Japan game i would try to avoid in any way buying the IC, transports and land units from Japan and the neighboring islands are enough to deal with China, Sinkiang, Buryatia and India, because there are also 5 fighters(one fell in Hawaii) and 1 bomber; not to mention two battleships
I’d never think of going KJF in a game where I would play for winning (and not for fun or ‘learning’ the game) and there is no time limit. I find KGF easier to orchestrate, straightforward and a safer path to Allied victory. However KJF really interests me and I’ve spend some time researching and trying to master it.
These are some of my thoughts on KJF. Some are very basic.
1. In order to execute a KJF plan the Allies must take Japan out with the US through the Pacific. They can’t take them out from mainland Asia only even if UK and US build their Sinkiang and India ICs. The double ICs are good for slowing Japan down in a KGF game, though.
2. So the US MUST go fully naval on the Pacific and abandon the Atlantic. There might be a configuration where the US somehow establishes an African shuck with their starting Atlantic fleet.
3. The US can try to sink the Jap navy. In order to do that they need to build an offensive fleet and will probably come from the Alaskan sea zone. They may need to build an Alaskan IC.
4. They can go island hopping (building a defensive fleet), diminishing Japan’s economy and eventually building a complex in one of the high IPC islands. For me the weakness of island hopping is that Japan can go for a ‘strafing your fleet(s) of your TRNs’ strategy as a counter.
5. The UK’s primary concern is to help Russia against Germany. However they must also contribute to a KJF. They have many options: Build an Indian IC (put pressure on the Asian mainland). Try to preserve the Pacific fleet. Build an Australian IC to reinforce it and expand the Allied naval game (either combining with the US or working separately). Park the fleet off the African coast and build a complex in SAfrica (and threaten Jap territories). Move the UK bmr in position to threaten Japan’s sea zones. Kill the Jap sub and reinforce US Hawaiian fleet with the ftr. Kill the Kwantung transport. The more they spend against Japan the better for Germany.
6. Against KJF it’s highly advantageous for Japan to build 3 TRNs on J1 in order to strengthen their navy.
7. My main concern with KJF is that I can never think of a round 1 situation where it would seem preferable to a KGF. Agreed, Japan not attacking PH could lure you to a KJF but that occurs on J1. What about G1?
If the German buys 2-3 TRNs can you be comfortable with KJF? If he spends nothing on ships isn’t it the best time for KGF (no opposition in the Atlantic – the Baltic open)? Only if he buys the AC I would consider KJF but even then I think KGF is safer.
Germany is planning for a KGF strat and is building defenses and not doing well VS russia.
Germany could predict the Allied plan from certain R1 actions (Buyratia stack, Russian ftr positioning, arm in Yakut, R1 attacks and buys, inf towards India). I don’t know what is the optimal R1 for a KJF but I think that the Allies would expect or even depend on some early Russian contribution to a KJF opening.
Even so, I think the German buy is always inf (absolutely necessary against KGF and for going for Russia if KJF) and most probably some navy which is good against both KGF and KJF.
About not doing well vs Russia, I think there’s too little time to tell (only R1 and G1) this is happening. Even then, isn’t it the best time to launch KGF?
Island hopping is the best strat to start with the US. You dont need a huge fleet to do it just a huge defence ( jet power :D )
And if you manage to keep the UK carrier alive combining it with the US fleet every turn gives a nice defence power there.
Also the islands are weakly defended and hard to reclaim and bring in a lot of IPC’s.
Less japan IPC’s is slower progress on the mainland and with the low initial cost you can combine it with a KGF strat.
I have only playtested one island hopping strategy that I found on the net which included a UK1 Aus complex + preserving all UK boats, and a UK2 BB and ftr buy in Aus. Those 49$ proved too much and Germany took Russia.
When island hopping do you go to the Solomons on US2? Do you build an Indian factory? How many ACs do you buy for the US? I’ve seen somewhere that you buy a DD and 2 loaded TRNs every turn for the US (after US1 or 2, can’t remember), is this valid?
Also, I don’t really understand combining KGF and KJF for me it’s always the one or the other.
CD:
Russia doesn’t have to do anything different on Round 1 in a KJF game. R2 is a different story, but by then the cat’s out of the bag.
Also, I’d say you almost HAVE to have an Indian IC and maybe even a Sink IC.
I’d buy 1 carrier, 1 transport, 1 fighter, 1 artillery, 1 infantry every round iwth America. This is a huge defense and a decent island hopping force. Get 3 or 4 carriers and 12 transports (over time) and you can do some massive damage to Japan.
However, anyone ever wonder if you could fool Japan into thinking you’ll do a SFE landing instead of main island? The trick here would be to forgo island hopping, build a fleet where you actually DO SFE landings for a few turns (while increasing your tranny supplies) then as a “surprise” go to Japan instead of SFE.
Shadow & Jen,
Do you always stack 6inf in Bury on R1, regardless of KJF or KGF?
Shadow & Jen,
Do you always stack 6inf in Bury on R1, regardless of KJF or KGF?
By leaving Bury empty it allows Japan to leave Manchuria empty on their first turn since its not at threat by any Soviet troops
If Bury is vacant, I’ll grab it on J1.
But to be honest, I have gotten so used to “Pearl Heavy”, forces in Bury, and China not going as well as planned, that I automatically think of a Manch landing in NCM on J1 instead of a Bury landing in Combat…
