XDAP2 PIT FIGHT Hammers vs Boldman

[Gargantua]

Good sportsmanship reward!

+1 infantry for the Axis in a capital of their choosing, and should they choose to accept!

[gamerman01]

That’s cool, but they have allowed minor late edits for me too (most notably Cyprus) so I think we’re even, and I decline

[cyanight]

Yea, it was Iwo. I had an inf at Hawaii with a TT I was planning to move.  I need to pay more attention to the whole map instead of getting tunnel vision on specific area. Seems to happen a lot with me playing ANZAC.

[gamerman01]

Actually, I have an extremely helpful tip for you.

For a long time, when playing ANZAC, I have looked at the # of unit count in the stats, and counted ANZAC units on the board until I come up with that count.  With their units looking like American, and with them being scattered around the board sometimes, this method has been extremely helpful to me.

[cyanight]

That’s a good idea for using the unit count stats. thanks :)

[gamerman01]

Doing myself a favor if that will end the late ANZAC edits  :-D

[Ferrousgryphon]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 6

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 6 artilleries and 1 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Politics - Russians
            Trigger Russians Friendly With Mongolians activates a trigger called: Trigger Allies Friendly With Mongolians

Combat Move - Russians
            1 infantry moved from Buyant-Uhaa to Manchuria
                  Chinese take Manchuria from Japanese

Combat - Russians
            Trigger Russians Conquer Japanese Territory By Mongolia: Setting switch to false for conditionAttachment_Mongolia_May_Change_To_Russians_Control_Switch attached to Russians

Non Combat Move - Russians
            1 infantry moved from Ulaanbaatar to Yakut S.S.R.
            1 infantry moved from Buyant-Uhaa to Ulaanbaatar
            1 infantry moved from Dzavhan to Yenisey
            2 aaGuns and 12 infantry moved from Timguska to Urals
            2 infantry moved from Olgiy to Timguska
            1 mech_infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Egypt

Place Units - Russians
            6 artilleries and 1 infantry placed in Russia

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 11 PUs; end with 11 PUs total
            Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 14 PUs

Territory Summary for Russians :

Manchuria : 1 infantry
    Yenisey : 1 infantry
    Yakut S.S.R. : 1 infantry
    Timguska : 2 infantry
    Olgiy : 1 flag
    Dzavhan : 1 flag
    Central Mongolia : 1 flag
    Buyant-Uhaa : 1 flag
    Ulaanbaatar : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    Tsagaan Olom : 1 flag
    Egypt : 1 mech_infantry
    Urals : 2 aaGuns and 12 infantry
    Russia : 4 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 9 artilleries, 1 bomber, 1 factory_major, 3 fighters, 65 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
    Iraq : 1 flag

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 56 / 69
    Russians : 11 / 14
    Japanese : 64 / 75
    Americans : 55 / 75
    Chinese : 3 / 5
    British : 30 / 31
    UK_Pacific : 7 / 6
    Italians : 20 / 15
    ANZAC : 11 / 16
    French : 8 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 18 / 0

[Ferrousgryphon]

Good Tip on ANZAC

[gamerman01]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 6

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 1 armour, 1 bomber, 1 carrier, 1 destroyer, 7 infantry and 2 submarines; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Japanese
            1 armour moved from Tsinghai to Timguska
                  Japanese take Novosibirsk from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Tsagaan Olom
                  Japanese take Tsagaan Olom from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Buryatia to Yakut S.S.R.
            1 armour moved from Amur to Yakut S.S.R.
            1 infantry moved from Amur to Ulaanbaatar
            1 infantry moved from Amur to Buyant-Uhaa
                  Japanese take Buyant-Uhaa from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Malaya to 37 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Malaya to 37 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 37 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 45 Sea Zone to Dutch New Guinea
            1 submarine moved from 62 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Malaya to Shan State
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Suiyuyan to Yakut S.S.R.
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Shensi to Timguska
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Shensi to Timguska
            1 fighter moved from Shensi to Timguska
            1 fighter moved from Suiyuyan to Ulaanbaatar
            1 transport moved from 5 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 armour moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 17 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 17 Sea Zone to Iwo Jima
            1 fighter moved from Japan to Iwo Jima
            1 fighter moved from Japan to Iwo Jima
            1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 mech_infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 19 Sea Zone to Manchuria
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Shensi to Ulaanbaatar
            1 armour moved from Chahar to Dzavhan
                  Japanese take Central Mongolia from Russians
                  Japanese take Dzavhan from Russians
            1 bomber moved from Szechwan to India
            1 bomber moved from Szechwan to India
            1 battleship moved from 37 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser moved from 56 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 37 Sea Zone to Dutch New Guinea
            1 fighter moved from Shensi to Timguska
            1 fighter moved from Szechwan to Shan State
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Shensi to Shan State
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Caroline Islands to 54 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 33 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 33 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Japan to 17 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 33 Sea Zone to Dutch New Guinea
            1 fighter moved from 33 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Caroline Islands to 54 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Caroline Islands to 54 Sea Zone

Combat - Japanese
            Battle in Dutch New Guinea
                Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 2 fighters and 1 infantry
                Americans defend with 1 artillery
                Japanese win, taking Dutch New Guinea from Americans with 1 artillery and 2 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 1
                Casualties for Americans: 1 artillery
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
            Battle in 17 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter and 1 transport
                ANZAC defend with 1 transport
                Japanese win with 1 fighter and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport
            Battle in Iwo Jima
                Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 2 fighters and 1 infantry
                ANZAC defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese win, taking Iwo Jima from ANZAC with 1 artillery, 2 fighters and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 infantry
            Battle in Manchuria
                Japanese attack with 1 armour, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese win, taking Manchuria from Chinese with 1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
            Strategic bombing raid in India
                Bombing raid in India rolls: 3 and causes: 3 damage to unit: factory_major
                Bombing raid in India rolls: 4 and causes: 4 damage to unit: airfield
                Bombing raid in India causes 7 damage total.  Damaged units is as follows: factory_major = 3, airfield = 4
            Battle in Timguska
                Japanese attack with 1 armour, 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers
                Russians defend with 2 infantry
                Japanese win with 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Russians: 2 infantry
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 armour
            Battle in 54 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 destroyer, 4 fighters, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber
                Americans defend with 1 destroyer
                Japanese win, taking 54 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 destroyer, 4 fighters, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer
            Battle in Shan State
                Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber
                British defend with 1 mech_infantry
                Japanese win, taking Shan State from UK_Pacific with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for British: 1 mech_infantry
            Battle in Ulaanbaatar
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is -11
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
            Battle in Yakut S.S.R.
                Japanese attack with 1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese win, taking Yakut S.S.R. from Russians with 1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Yakut S.S.R. to Buryatia
            1 mech_infantry moved from Chahar to Dzavhan
            1 aaGun moved from Tsinghai to Kazakhstan
            2 infantry moved from Sikang to Kazakhstan
            1 infantry moved from Szechwan to Yunnan
            1 infantry moved from Shensi to Kansu
            1 infantry moved from Shensi to Tsinghai
            2 infantry moved from Kweichow to Shensi
            1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Kweichow
            1 infantry moved from Jehol to Anhwe
            1 mech_infantry moved from Jehol to Suiyuyan
            1 transport moved from 37 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 37 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
            4 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 54 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 17 Sea Zone to Caroline Islands
            2 fighters moved from Iwo Jima to 6 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from Dutch New Guinea to 45 Sea Zone
            1 carrier, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer moved from 37 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Ulaanbaatar to Jehol
            1 fighter moved from Timguska to Kansu
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Timguska to Kansu
            1 fighter moved from Timguska to Kazakhstan
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Timguska to Kazakhstan
            2 bombers moved from India to Yunnan
            1 fighter moved from Shan State to Yunnan
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Shan State to Yunnan
            1 artillery moved from Szechwan to Sikang
            1 infantry moved from Szechwan to Sikang
            1 infantry moved from Szechwan to Yunnan
            2 transports moved from 56 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone

Place Units - Japanese
            1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 2 submarines placed in 6 Sea Zone
            3 infantry placed in Malaya
            1 armour, 1 bomber and 4 infantry placed in Japan

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Japanese collect 71 PUs; end with 71 PUs total
            Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 76 PUs

[gamerman01]

Forgot SBR technically supposed to be rolled before amphibious assaults
Trust you agree it didn’t make any difference - just wanted to acknowledge

[cyanight]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 6

Purchase Units - Americans
            Americans buy 1 airfield, 1 destroyer, 1 factory_minor and 4 fighters; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Americans
            1 destroyer moved from 63 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 63 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            3 fighters moved from 63 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            2 bombers moved from New Zealand to 54 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from United Kingdom to Germany

Combat - Americans
            Strategic bombing raid in Germany
                1 bomber killed by AA
                Bombing raid in Germany causes 0 damage total.
            Battle in 54 Sea Zone
                Americans attack with 2 bombers, 1 destroyer, 3 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber
                Japanese defend with 1 destroyer and 1 submarine
                Americans win, taking 54 Sea Zone from Japanese with 2 bombers, 1 destroyer, 3 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 destroyer and 1 submarine

Non Combat Move - Americans
            2 bombers moved from 54 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
            3 fighters moved from 54 Sea Zone to New South Wales
            4 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys moved from New Zealand to 63 Sea Zone
            1 battleship, 3 carriers, 2 cruisers, 2 destroyers, 4 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 3 transports moved from 63 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from Midway to 26 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 54 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western United States to Hawaiian Islands
            1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Western United States to 10 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 3 destroyers, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry, 3 submarines and 2 transports moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 6 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
            1 bomber moved from Western United States to United Kingdom
            2 bombers moved from Western United States to Hawaiian Islands
            3 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 109 Sea Zone to Norway
            2 carriers, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 109 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone

Place Units - Americans
            1 destroyer placed in 10 Sea Zone
            4 fighters placed in Eastern United States
            1 airfield and 1 factory_minor placed in Norway

Turn Complete - Americans
            Americans collect 55 PUs; end with 55 PUs total
            Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 60 PUs
            Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 65 PUs
            Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 75 PUs

[Ferrousgryphon]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 6

Purchase Units - Chinese
            Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
            Chinese buy nothing; Remaining resources: 5 PUs;

Combat Move - Chinese

Combat - Chinese

Turn Complete - Chinese
            Chinese collect 0 PUs; end with 5 PUs total

[Ferrousgryphon]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 6

Purchase Units - British
            British buy 2 fighters, 1 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Purchase Units - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific buy 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - British
            1 armour moved from Norway to Finland
                  British take Finland from Germans

Combat - British

Non Combat Move - British
            1 armour moved from Finland to Norway
            1 infantry moved from West India to India
            1 armour, 2 fighters and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Eastern Persia to India
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Eastern Persia to West India
            1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Egypt
            1 transport moved from 80 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 109 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
            4 fighters moved from Norway to Russia
            1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Egypt

Place Units - British
            2 fighters and 1 infantry placed in Egypt
            2 mech_infantrys placed in Union of South Africa

Turn Complete - British
            British collect 32 PUs; end with 32 PUs total

Place Units - UK_Pacific
            2 infantry placed in India

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific collect 6 PUs; end with 6 PUs total
            Some Units in India change ownership: 2 infantry

Territory Summary for British and UK_Pacific :

India : 3 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 2 armour, 3 artilleries, 1 bomber, 1 factory_major, 2 fighters, 1 harbour, 20 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys
    West India : 1 artillery and 1 infantry
    Iceland : 1 airfield
    Quebec : 1 factory_minor
    Gibraltar : 1 harbour
    New Brunswick Nova Scotia : 1 harbour
    Egypt : 1 airfield, 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 2 fighters, 1 harbour and 5 infantry
    Union of South Africa : 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 2 mech_infantrys
    Scotland : 1 airfield
    Malta : 1 aaGun and 1 infantry
    United Kingdom : 5 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 factory_major, 3 fighters, 1 harbour and 9 infantry
    Norway : 1 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry
    Tobruk : 1 flag
    Russia : 6 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber
    106 Sea Zone : 1 destroyer
    Eire : 1 flag
    109 Sea Zone : 1 flag
    97 Sea Zone : 1 flag, 2 submarines
    Eastern Persia : 1 flag
    81 Sea Zone : 1 transport
    Persia : 1 flag
    98 Sea Zone : 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer
    Finland : 1 flag

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 54 / 69
    Russians : 9 / 14
    Japanese : 71 / 76
    Americans : 55 / 75
    Chinese : 0 / 5
    British : 32 / 32
    UK_Pacific : 6 / 6
    Italians : 20 / 15
    ANZAC : 10 / 16
    French : 8 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 18 / 0

[Ferrousgryphon]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 6

Purchase Units - British
            British buy 2 fighters, 1 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Purchase Units - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific buy 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - British
            1 armour moved from Norway to Finland
                  British take Finland from Germans

Combat - British

Non Combat Move - British
            1 armour moved from Finland to Norway
            1 infantry moved from West India to India
            1 armour, 2 fighters and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Eastern Persia to India
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Eastern Persia to West India
            1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Egypt
            1 transport moved from 80 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 109 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
            4 fighters moved from Norway to Russia
            1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Egypt

Place Units - British
            2 fighters and 1 infantry placed in Egypt
            2 mech_infantrys placed in Union of South Africa

Turn Complete - British
            British collect 32 PUs; end with 32 PUs total

Place Units - UK_Pacific
            2 infantry placed in India

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific collect 6 PUs; end with 6 PUs total
            Some Units in India change ownership: 2 infantry

Territory Summary for British and UK_Pacific :

India : 3 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 2 armour, 3 artilleries, 1 bomber, 1 factory_major, 2 fighters, 1 harbour, 20 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys
    West India : 1 artillery and 1 infantry
    Iceland : 1 airfield
    Quebec : 1 factory_minor
    Gibraltar : 1 harbour
    New Brunswick Nova Scotia : 1 harbour
    Egypt : 1 airfield, 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 2 fighters, 1 harbour and 5 infantry
    Union of South Africa : 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 2 mech_infantrys
    Scotland : 1 airfield
    Malta : 1 aaGun and 1 infantry
    United Kingdom : 5 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 factory_major, 3 fighters, 1 harbour and 9 infantry
    Norway : 1 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry
    Tobruk : 1 flag
    Russia : 6 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber
    106 Sea Zone : 1 destroyer
    Eire : 1 flag
    109 Sea Zone : 1 flag
    97 Sea Zone : 1 flag, 2 submarines
    Eastern Persia : 1 flag
    81 Sea Zone : 1 transport
    Persia : 1 flag
    98 Sea Zone : 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer
    Finland : 1 flag

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 54 / 69
    Russians : 9 / 14
    Japanese : 71 / 76
    Americans : 55 / 75
    Chinese : 0 / 5
    British : 32 / 32
    UK_Pacific : 6 / 6
    Italians : 20 / 15
    ANZAC : 10 / 16
    French : 8 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 18 / 0

[Ferrousgryphon]

Every time I post on here it gives me a fault the first time and doesn’t post then it posts twice once I try again. Anyone have a suggestion on what’s wrong?

[gamerman01]

That, the repeated logoff/logon problem, and now porn on the sidebars.  This site is getting pretty bad.

[gamerman01]

Never mind - reported to Dave Jensen and he addressed it right away -

game on

[boldfresh]

@Gamerman01:

That, the repeated logoff/logon problem, and now porn on the sidebars.� This site is getting pretty bad.

glad to hear I’m not the only one with the log on log off problem.  Didn’t notice port on the sidebars lol……   is it too late to ask for my 2015 patron contribution back?   :lol:

[gamerman01]

@Ferrousgryphon:

Every time I post on here it gives me a fault the first time and doesn’t post then it posts twice once I try again. Anyone have a suggestion on what’s wrong?

This thread might help answer your question:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35718.0

[gamerman01]

Didn’t matter in this instance, but I want to advise you that the blitzing movement must be completed in the combat movement phase - that is, you were required to move the tank back to Norway before rolling any dice (in this case there were no dice).

Might save you some angst in the future