Allies (+16) vs. Axis (darkskies) Coop

[ItIsILeClerc]

Difficult moves for Japan…
It’ll be over soon or it’ll be a long and dragging economic game indeed. I didn’t look into the next turns too much to be certain about anything (I just took what I could and avoided heavy losses on the Luftwaffe), but I see different opportunities for both sides…

Allies have proven JF over GF once more  :-(, although you didn’t focus as much on Japan as I would’ve expected.

Sorry to hear that you don’t think to be up for another strategy test after this, as I feel there is much more to explore.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 11

Purchase Units - Americans
            Americans buy 2 artilleries, 3 destroyers, 4 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys, 1 submarine and 4 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Americans
            1 bomber moved from Siam to 19 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Spain to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 infantry moved from Spain to Southern France
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 91 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 91 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
            6 fighters moved from 91 Sea Zone to Southern France

Combat - Americans
            Battle in 19 Sea Zone
                Americans attack with 1 bomber
                Japanese defend with 1 transport
                Americans win with 1 bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 transport
            Battle in Normandy Bordeaux
                Americans attack with 1 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                Germans defend with 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
                Americans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from Germans with 1 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
            Battle in Southern France
                Americans attack with 6 fighters and 1 infantry
                Italians defend with 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 2 infantry
                Americans win, taking Southern France from Italians with 6 fighters and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Italians: 2 infantry

Non Combat Move - Americans
            4 carriers, 1 destroyer and 7 transports moved from 91 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
            2 tactical_bombers moved from Normandy Bordeaux to 92 Sea Zone
            4 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Central United States to 101 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Eastern United States to Gibraltar
            1 fighter moved from Eastern United States to Gibraltar
            1 aaGun and 7 infantry moved from Eastern United States to 101 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from French Indo China to Siam
            1 bomber moved from 19 Sea Zone to Amur
            1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 11 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 7 transports moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 11 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys moved from 91 Sea Zone to Spain
            1 fighter moved from Southern France to Gibraltar
            5 fighters moved from Southern France to 92 Sea Zone

Place Units - Americans
            4 transports placed in 101 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries, 4 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Eastern United States
            Turning on Edit Mode
            3 destroyers and 1 submarine placed in 10 Sea Zone
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from 10 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to 26 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

Turn Complete - Americans
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 2
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 36 Sea Zone. Rolls: 3,2
            Americans collect 63 PUs (2 lost to blockades); end with 63 PUs total
            Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 68 PUs
            Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs
            Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 83 PUs

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 11

Purchase Units - Chinese
            Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
            Chinese buy 1 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Chinese
            1 infantry moved from Chahar to Hopei
                  Chinese take Hopei from Japanese

Combat - Chinese

Non Combat Move - Chinese

Place Units - Chinese
            1 infantry placed in Suiyuyan

Turn Complete - Chinese
            Chinese collect 3 PUs; end with 3 PUs total

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 11

Purchase Units - British
            British buy 3 aaGuns and 3 armour; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Purchase Units - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific buy 2 artilleries and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - British
            1 mech_infantry moved from Egypt to Trans-Jordan
            1 fighter moved from Ethiopia to Trans-Jordan
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Ethiopia to Trans-Jordan
            1 bomber moved from Egypt to Persia
            1 armour moved from West India to Persia

Combat - British
            Battle in Trans-Jordan
                British attack with 1 fighter, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans defend with 1 mech_infantry
                British win, taking Trans-Jordan from Germans with 1 fighter, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
            Battle in Persia
                British attack with 1 armour and 1 bomber
                Germans defend with 1 mech_infantry
                British win with 1 bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is -2
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for British: 1 armour

Non Combat Move - British
            1 bomber moved from Persia to India
            3 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Egypt
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Trans-Jordan to Egypt
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Ethiopia to Egypt
            1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Belgian Congo to Egypt
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Union of South Africa to Belgian Congo
            5 fighters moved from Gibraltar to Egypt
            1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 4 transports moved from 91 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Quebec to 106 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 106 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Spain
            3 aaGuns, 3 artilleries and 14 infantry moved from Burma to India
            1 infantry moved from Shan State to Malaya

Place Units - British
            3 armour placed in Union of South Africa
            3 aaGuns placed in Egypt

Turn Complete - British
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 1
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 98 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4,1
            British collect 31 PUs (1 lost to blockades); end with 31 PUs total

Place Units - UK_Pacific
            2 artilleries and 2 infantry placed in India
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by British from Malaya: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by UK_Pacific to Shan State: 1 infantry

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific collect 14 PUs; end with 14 PUs total
            Units Change Ownership
                Some Units in Shan State change ownership: 1 infantry
                Some Units in India change ownership: 2 artilleries and 2 infantry

[ItIsILeClerc]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 11

Purchase Units - Italians
            Italians buy 1 destroyer, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 2 submarines; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Italians
            2 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Smolensk to Vologda
                  Italians take Vologda from Russians
            2 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Vologda to Urals
                  Italians take Urals from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Iraq to Trans-Jordan
            1 bomber moved from Southern Italy to Trans-Jordan
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern Italy to Southern France
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Southern Italy to Southern France
            1 mech_infantry moved from Syria to Trans-Jordan

Combat - Italians
            Battle in Trans-Jordan
                Italians attack with 1 bomber, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                British defend with 1 mech_infantry
                Italians win, taking Trans-Jordan from British with 1 bomber, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for British: 1 mech_infantry
            Battle in Southern France
                Italians attack with 1 fighter, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
                Americans defend with 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
                Italians win, taking Southern France from Americans with 1 fighter, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Americans: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Italians
            1 bomber moved from Trans-Jordan to Iraq
            1 fighter moved from Caucasus to Iraq
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern Italy to Iraq
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern France to Southern Italy
            1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Yugoslavia to Greece
            1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Southern Italy to Yugoslavia
            1 mech_infantry moved from Northern Italy to Albania
            1 artillery moved from Yugoslavia to Northern Italy
            7 infantry moved from Southern Italy to Northern Italy
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Southern Italy to Yugoslavia
            2 aaGuns moved from Southern Italy to Northern Italy
            1 bomber moved from Iraq to Persia
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Iraq to Persia
            1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Iraq to Persia
            1 mech_infantry moved from Smolensk to Urals
            2 aaGuns and 4 infantry moved from Smolensk to Bryansk

Place Units - Italians
            2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in Northern Italy
            1 destroyer and 2 submarines placed in 97 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Italians
            Italians collect 25 PUs; end with 25 PUs total
            Objective Italians 4 Control Iraq Or Persia Or Northwest Persia: Italians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 27 PUs

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 11

Purchase Units - ANZAC
            ANZAC buy 3 destroyers; Remaining resources: 7 PUs;

Combat Move - ANZAC

Non Combat Move - ANZAC
            1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from New South Wales to Queensland
            1 fighter moved from Queensland to 54 Sea Zone
            1 transport moved from 41 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Siam to French Indo China

Place Units - ANZAC
            3 destroyers placed in 62 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - ANZAC
            ANZAC collect 18 PUs; end with 25 PUs total
            Trigger ANZAC 1 Control Original And Malaya: ANZAC met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 30 PUs
            Objective ANZAC 2 Control Strategic Islands: ANZAC met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 35 PUs

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 11

Combat Move - French

Non Combat Move - French
            3 infantry moved from Alexandria to Egypt
            1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to Egypt

Turn Complete - French

[ItIsILeClerc]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 12

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 1 bomber, 5 infantry and 18 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            19 bombers, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from Southern Italy to 92 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Western Germany to 92 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from France to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 mech_infantry moved from Nenetsia to Evenkiyskiy
                  Germans take Evenkiyskiy from Russians
            1 mech_infantry moved from Yakut S.S.R. to Buryatia
                  Germans take Buryatia from Russians
            1 mech_infantry moved from Novosibirsk to Turkmenistan
                  Germans take Turkmenistan from Russians
            EDIT: 1 armour, 1 bomber, 2 fighters, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Persia to Iraq

Combat - Germans
            Americans scrambles 3 units out of Gibraltar to defend against the attack in 92 Sea Zone
            Battle in Normandy Bordeaux
                Germans attack with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Americans defend with 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
                Germans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from Americans with 1 artillery and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Americans: 1 infantry
            Battle in 92 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 20 bombers, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers
                British defend with 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 4 transports; Americans defend with 4 carriers, 1 destroyer, 8 fighters, 2 tactical_bombers and 7 transports
                Germans win with 13 bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 140
                Casualties for Germans: 7 bombers, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers
                Casualties for British: 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 4 transports
                Casualties for Americans: 4 carriers, 1 destroyer, 8 fighters, 2 tactical_bombers and 7 transports

Non Combat Move - Germans
            13 bombers moved from 92 Sea Zone to Southern Italy
            1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to France
            2 infantry moved from Western Germany to France
            23 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to Northern Italy
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Iraq to Southern Italy
            3 aaGuns, 4 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Northwest Persia to Iraq
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Caucasus to Iraq
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Volgograd to Northwest Persia
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Ukraine to Caucasus
            8 artilleries and 25 infantry moved from Smolensk to Bryansk
            1 infantry moved from Archangel to Vologda
            1 mech_infantry moved from Smolensk to Urals
            29 mech_infantrys moved from Smolensk to Rostov
            1 infantry moved from Russia to Tambov
            2 infantry moved from Russia to Tambov
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Novgorod to Bryansk
            2 infantry moved from Karelia to Finland
            1 mech_infantry moved from Saudi Arabia to Iraq
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Karelia to Archangel
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Karelia to Belarus

Place Units - Germans
            1 bomber and 9 mech_infantrys placed in Western Germany
            3 infantry placed in France
            2 infantry placed in Volgograd
            3 mech_infantrys placed in Russia
            3 mech_infantrys placed in Ukraine
            3 mech_infantrys placed in Novgorod

Turn Complete - Germans
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 5
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 125 Sea Zone. Rolls: 3,4,2,4
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 105 Sea Zone. Rolls: 1,1
            Germans collect 69 PUs (5 lost to blockades); end with 69 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 74 PUs
            Objective Germans 6 Control Iraq Or Persia Or Northwest Persia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 4 PUs; end with 78 PUs
            Objective Germans 3 Control Caucasus: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 83 PUs
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 15 PUs; end with 98 PUs

[ItIsILeClerc]

I scrambled for you in the battle off Gibraltar, because those additional 3FTR would shoot down 4 extra German bombers. I ran the math a couple of times and the difference is exactly 4 bombers.

I can see the why of both scrambling or not scrambling for this battle, so I took the liberty for the flow/speed of the game to auto-scramble for you. If you want those FTR not to scramble (so they can be used ‘somewhere else’), just say so and I’ll edit them back during my Japanese turn. In that case I will edit 4 more German bombers into Italy as well ;-).

I edited some Italians from Persia back to Iraq, and I need the Italian 2sub + 1DD in SZ95 instead of SZ97… I see I hurried that turn a bit too much. I can do that during the Japanese turn myself as well.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

The fighters definitely were intended to scramble.  I had a difficult choice: leave the fleet partially defended and lose the fleet, or leave Egypt partially defended and lose Egypt more easily.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

I think the game is over now, but I will double check tonight if there is any chance for a way for the Allies to come back.

[ItIsILeClerc]

No hard feelings if you want to call it a game, Arthur.
This game has already showed some very valuable things to me (and I hope to you as well).

I think early JF is putting the allies on the right track against DS. As with all axis strategies  :|.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

The game is certainly over.  The Axis is producing more money than the Allies, have better position, and should have outright victory in 3 turns no matter what the Allies do.  I concede.  I took a gamble that you wouldn’t attack the Atlantic fleet, but in reality there wasn’t anything else that I could do.  If I defended it more strongly, you simply would have taken Egypt with sufficient force that I couldn’t retake it.  That is the power of Dark Skies!  I have been stuck with few good options for the entire game in Europe, despite spending a large majority of my money in that hemisphere.

I could have delayed the fall of Moscow by building more infantry instead of artillery and flying more Allied fighters to help out.  I don’t like that plan much since Germany can simply bomb it to prevent further troop building and head south to the oilfields.  Germany doesn’t need Moscow to out-earn the US.  I had hoped to find sometime to counterstrike with my artillery, but you played flawlessly.  Congratulations!

[ItIsILeClerc]

Thanks, ABH.
Too bad, I had hoped the DS could be defeated in this game already. You started so very well, especially against Japan. This is at least as difficult as my previous (but unfinished) project of allied strategy finding, where the preliminary conclusion also was that GF (note the missing ‘K’) gets the allies nowhere, except in a bad economic position. But not a pacific loss however, mind you.

I am certainly going to continue to try and find an allied answer to this. Whoever wants to join me is welcome! I am going to try the following allied overarching strategy:

• USA-> JF 3turns, then building up in the Atlantic. Never with the aim to try to get a beachhead in ‘Normandy’, but to have a fleet that prevents Germany from taking London. I have seen with DS (and the other German strategies aimed at Russia as well), that the USA can not get a strong enough beachhead in western Europe untill Japan is completely neutered. In ~10 turns, they can still have as much as ~6 carriers + some DD (+all the other ships that survives the opening battles) and 10 or more TRS with load. As a bonus, this will tie German troops west as well.

• UK-> With the USA protecting London (after turn 3) and the Atlantic, the UK can probably produce almost exclusively in Africa, with an additional quick UK2 IC into Egypt. Also producing 1FTR per turn there, the UK can have an impressive RAF force in the ME/Russia of about 20 aircraft (minus what they want to keep active against Japan/in Gibraltar), accompanied by >40 produced land units (over the course of 10 turns).

• Russia-> try to survive for 12 turns (hopefully more) with UK aid.

I am not saying this will do the trick, but I want to try it and see how far it gets the allies. If it fails, then only a full JF is left to try out. Reinforcing Cairo/Russia from the Pacific after a turn or 5/6.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

I guess I’m game, since I want to try out a couple of strategies myself.  I will offer you three choices for bonuses for the Allies:

Option 1):  extra starting units of your choosing (+20)
Option 2):  100 extra starting infantry for the US in Central USA
Option 3):  Extra income bonus for the US every round (6 PUs)

Let me know your wish… ABH

[nerquen]

I vote for option 3  :-D , it would be great if you could guys test counters to DS strategy as well as this way of tweaking the balance at the same time.

[ItIsILeClerc]

Hmmm, nice thinking Nerquen, but I want to focus on 1 task at a time.
Since option 2 is completely LOL (even 1 british submarine in 98 is better than even 1000 INF in CUSA, by way of speaking) and option 3 is indeed a completely different way of balance testing, I’ll go for option 1.

Sorry Nerquen but for me that is something to do later or for other people to do now. I should not switch plans too often so my current A&A list is as follows: Counter DS, Counter G4J4, other tasks. Note that the DS counter will most likely also work against G4J4, but I want to make that one a GF, since it is the only axis strategy left that does not require a JF from the start, as far as I am concerned…

ABH, glad you’re still in.
Add a sub in #91, a FTR in #98 and an art in Alexandria and start the game with Germany when ready.

BTW, I hope that by wishing to ‘try out a couple of strategies yourself’, you do not mean something completely different from DS ;-).

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

Okay, I will start a new one tonight.

[nerquen]

@ItIsILeClerc:

Hmmm, nice thinking Nerquen, but I want to focus on 1 task at a time.
Since option 2 is completely LOL (even 1 british submarine in 98 is better than even 1000 INF in CUSA, by way of speaking) and option 3 is indeed a completely different way of balance testing, I’ll go for option 1.

Sure no pressure here, enjoy the game guys.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

I thought that I properly had set up the game, but something weird happened.  Here is the save file after G1.  It is essentially the same moves as I normally do, with the change of taking Southern France.  Let me know if you can use it or if I need to redo G1.

-ABH