XDAP #2 - Round 1 - Team Bad Dice - Team La Armada Invencible

[JuanSpain]

You have the option to intercept in Moscow with 2 fighters.

I will assume no intercept, as it would be a 4 versus 2 battle.

If you decide intercepting we can launch that battle in Forum and if you are lucky and make a hit, the casualty would be the Tactical, so no change in the 3 Bombers bombing raid, as the tac is just scorting (not targeting the airfield).

[JuanSpain]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 8

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 6 artilleries, 1 bomber, 1 carrier, 1 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Politics - Germans
            Germans takes Political Action: Political Action Germans To War With Chinese
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Germans To War With Chinese: Changing Relationship for Germans and Chinese from Neutrality to War

Combat Move - Germans
            3 armour moved from Nenetsia to Urals
            1 mech_infantry moved from Nenetsia to Urals
            1 mech_infantry moved from Nenetsia to Urals
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Nenetsia to Vologda
            1 fighter moved from Novgorod to Vologda
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to Vologda
            3 infantry moved from Ukraine to Rostov
            3 bombers moved from Western Germany to Russia
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Greece to Rostov
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern Italy to Rostov
            4 bombers moved from Western Germany to Rostov
            1 bomber moved from Western Germany to Rostov
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Ukraine to Russia
            1 fighter moved from Ukraine to Rostov

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Urals
                Germans attack with 3 armour and 2 mech_infantrys
                Russians defend with 1 mech_infantry
                Germans win, taking Urals from Russians with 3 armour and 2 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Russians: 1 mech_infantry
            Battle in Vologda
                Germans attack with 1 fighter, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Germans win, taking Vologda from Russians with 1 fighter, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is -1
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Air Battle in Russia
                Germans attacks with 4 units heading to Russia
                Air Battle is over, the remaining bombers go on to their targets
            Strategic bombing raid in Russia
                1 tactical_bomber killed by AA
                Bombing raid in Russia rolls: 4,5,6 and causes: 15 damage to unit: factory_major
                Bombing raid in Russia causes 15 damage total.
            Battle in Rostov
                Germans attack with 5 bombers, 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                Russians defend with 1 aaGun, 1 artillery and 4 infantry
                Germans win with 5 bombers and 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is -10
                Casualties for Germans: 3 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                Casualties for Russians: 1 aaGun, 1 artillery and 4 infantry
            Cleaning up after air battles

Non Combat Move - Germans
            5 bombers moved from Rostov to Ukraine
            1 fighter moved from Rostov to 96 Sea Zone
            3 bombers moved from Russia to Smolensk
            1 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Bryansk
            2 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Ukraine
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Western Ukraine to Smolensk
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Eastern Poland to Smolensk
            1 fighter moved from Vologda to Ukraine
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Vologda to Ukraine
            1 aaGun moved from Archangel to Smolensk
            2 armour moved from Nenetsia to Smolensk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Nenetsia to Smolensk
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Belarus
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Novgorod to Smolensk
            2 aaGuns, 20 artilleries, 16 infantry and 14 mech_infantrys moved from Belarus to Smolensk
            2 infantry moved from Karelia to Novgorod
            2 aaGuns moved from Western Germany to Germany
            4 infantry moved from Western Germany to Germany
            2 infantry moved from France to Northern Italy
            1 infantry moved from Normandy Bordeaux to France
            1 destroyer moved from 92 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Southern France to 93 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 93 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
            1 armour moved from Gibraltar to 92 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 92 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
            1 armour moved from 96 Sea Zone to Tobruk
            1 infantry moved from 96 Sea Zone to Tobruk
            1 carrier moved from 93 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 93 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from Bulgaria to Greece

Place Units - Germans
            1 carrier placed in 93 Sea Zone
            1 bomber placed in Western Germany
            2 artilleries and 1 infantry placed in Western Ukraine
            3 artilleries placed in Ukraine
            Germans undo move 3.
            3 artilleries placed in Western Ukraine
            1 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Novgorod

Turn Complete - Germans
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 3
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 125 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,3
            Germans collect 53 PUs (3 lost to blockades); end with 53 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 58 PUs
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 63 PUs

[JuanSpain]

I did not realize that the tac could not just scort and had to attack the airfield.

Given your AA made a hit and it was the tactical selected, if you intercept with the 2 fghters and you make a hit in forum, we would need to launch the AA and air raid again.

[Soulblighter]

@JuanSpain:

I did not realize that the tac could not just scort and had to attack the airfield.

Given your AA made a hit and it was the tactical selected, if you intercept with the 2 fghters and you make a hit in forum, we would need to launch the AA and air raid again.

It is a bit more complicated then that. Technically you are to roll on forum when you target a TT with multiple bombing raids. Reason is that AA is rolled for each raid seperately. So in this case. One die would be rolled for the tactical bomber and the remaining dies for the bombers.

This is usually forgotten and most of the time I don’t really give a damn either. In this case there is a difference as the value of a tactical bomber is generally speaking less then that of a bomber and a main factory is being hit by them.

Easiest sollution would be to roll a single die on the forum using forum dice. If the die is a 1/2/3 then the tactical bomber remains dead. If it is 4/5/6 then it was a bomber that died. If a bomber died instead of the tactical bomber, then two more dice are rolled on the forum. One die to determine the damage to the airfield and one to see which bomber died. The bombers did 4, 5 and 6 damage. So the second die would be 1 and 2 for the first bomber which had a hit for four etc. Really simple to solve and it only takes 1-3 forum dice to solve. This way the marti dice are unaffected.

I do wish to hear Variance first tho.

[Soulblighter]

Also I said it is more complicated. You were under the impression that a tactical bomber could escort. You might have done your entire move differently had you known. Which complicates matters.

[Soulblighter]

Which is why I wish to hear Variane´s opinion as well.

[JuanSpain]

Yes, I would have taken the fighter as scort, if I knew this, I did not want to raid the airfield, and thought I would be promted by Triple A to decide, but I was not, and 4 AA dice were launched instead.

[JuanSpain]

Soul, I read the rules, it is attacker choice to select the bomber casualty.

[Soulblighter]

@JuanSpain:

Soul, I read the rules, it is attacker choice to select the bomber casualty.

Yes, but when you attack multiple facilities. AA are rolled for each facility. And triple A just dumps all the AA on one pile. There is a list with things that are still being mishandled by triple A. This is one of them.

[variance]

Aaah I hate when this happens.  We always have to use forum dice when there are more than 1 SBR target.  Oh well we can resolve this fairly.

First, the attacker decides which tac or bomber goes only if there is a tac and bomber attacking a base, not an IC. If its an IC it has to be bombers because tacs can only hit bases.  So if you had known that you would be crazy to send a tac instead of a fighter and risk it getting hit by AA.

So to be fair let’s say you sent a fighter and 3 bombers.  The problem is that 4 AA dice were rolled but there should have only been 3 dice for the 3 bombers.  There was 1 hit.  So now we have to decide if the 1 dice that got the AA hit was on the tac or on the bombers.  If it was on the tac (which is now a fighter) we will just keep tings as they are.

But the odds that the throwaway hit was on one of the bombers is 3 out of 4.  So the fair way to resolve it is to roll a 4 sided dice and if it rolls a 1 then the hit was on the tac and everything stays as it is.  If it rolls a 2, 3, or 4 then it was on one of the bombers.  That means 1 of the bombers gets removed and we remove one third of the SBR damage, which would be 5.

Does that sound fair to everyone?  If that’s OK I will roll it

[JuanSpain]

If you are right about the rules and the way dice were launched for the bombing raid by Triple A are not correct, then dice for the bombing raid in Moscow should be repeated from scratch in forum with the correct procedure.

[variance]

I can see your point, but dice have already been rolled.  I think we will need a ruling from Master Gargantua.  I will PM him.

[variance]

The Dice are SACRED.

[Gargantua]

Interesting situation you guys have found yourself in.

I am still reading the details, and reviewing the map before a ruling.

I appreciate that both parties are being respectful and reasonable with each other…

[Gargantua]

After reviewing the dice, the Tac could have been interchanged with a fighter at either Rostov of Vologda without any issue.

However, the axis inherited the risks involved with “assuming” an opponents scramble, and the “slighted” party if you can call it that - is the allies.

This is messy…  There are errors… there is an extra aa shot…  there is misinformed parties etc.

Tournament ruling is:

The allies may choose:
Option #1.  Accept dice as is.  Tac B is selected as casualty. Move on.

Option #2.  Allies can choose to Scramble, and Reroll the entire battle, Tac B still goes to the airbase.

If the allies don’t like Options #1 or #2, I will proceed with:

Option #3.  Axis attack is adjusted to 3 bombers 1 fgt as intended, and battle is rerolled.

Make your choice carefully.

[Gargantua]

I should clarify that option 2 would be rolled out over the forum, and AA Shots would be separated by facility.

[variance]

We will take option 1

Thank you.

[Soulblighter]

And we proceed for the washing machine.

[Soulblighter]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 8

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians repair damage of 12x factory_major; Remaining resources: 22 PUs;
            Russians buy 7 infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Tambov to Bryansk
            2 infantry moved from Russia to Vologda
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Russia to Vologda
            1 armour moved from Italian Somaliland to British Somaliland
                  British take British Somaliland from Italians
            1 armour moved from British Somaliland to Ethiopia

Combat - Russians
            Battle in Vologda
                Russians attack with 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans defend with 1 mech_infantry
                Russians win, taking Vologda from Germans with 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
            Battle in Bryansk
                Russians attack with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 infantry; Italians defend with 1 aaGun
                Russians win, taking Bryansk from Italians with 1 artillery and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 5
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Italians: 1 aaGun
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Russians
            1 infantry moved from Tambov to Rostov
            5 mech_infantrys moved from Egypt to Iraq
            5 mech_infantrys moved from Russia to Kazakhstan
            1 armour moved from Russia to Kazakhstan
            2 aaGuns moved from Samara to Kazakhstan
            1 infantry moved from Volgograd to Kazakhstan
            1 infantry moved from Novosibirsk to Timguska
            1 infantry moved from Samara to Novosibirsk
            13 infantry moved from Samara to Russia
            2 aaGuns, 5 artilleries and 22 infantry moved from Tambov to Russia
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Vologda to Russia

Place Units - Russians
            7 infantry placed in Russia

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 25 PUs; end with 26 PUs total
            Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 32 PUs

[Soulblighter]

Move can be considered finalised once Variance gives the ok.