I do agree that beginners should stick to the London factory. It does require skill pulling off the india IC. But It just depends on how you and your allies play the game. If each of you are gonna do your own thing, the game will certainly be over quicker than usual. Thats the key…… Teamwork and persistance. Control the game by limiting the enemy of options. Do this and you’ll win no matter who you are.
What's the consensus on a standard bid?
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Well, for now I’m just going to bid 9. If someone wants the axis with a less than 51% starting chance, they’re welcome to it. :-D
And if I end up being stuck with the Allies all the time, I’ll just be getting better at my Allies game and facing opponents who are taking the Axis with a lower bid than they should be. :-D
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I still think bids greater than 7 give too much advantage for Axis. Sub at z8 kills both UK BB, thus destroing any allied chains of reinforcements for at least 3 turns. I tried that bid and it rocks. Too much powerfull.
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I’ve never yet encountered the sub to Z8 bid, and have only heard it mentioned recently. Sounds like it would be worth trying.
Perhaps instead of a bid, one should simply alter the starting setup - put an Arm/Inf in Libya, and be done with it. No bidding.
But that would be boring. The varying bid placement creates a lot of variety in openings, and the games that flow from them.
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Sub to SZ8 is indeed powerful, but you got to pay close attention to the details of it. First, there is like…about 50% chance that you will lose an aircraft or both. If you’re hell bent on taking out that BB, you have to be willing to commit both fighter and bomber to die, as there’s an 80’ish% chance to clear - if you stay with all units.
Second, if you send both subs to SZ2, that pretty much means you have to send your med bb/tran westwards to tag the UK BB there. That almost guarantees Egypt will survive. In fact I can’t see anything else happening since the best you can do considering Ukraine is attacked is 1 inf 1 arm 1 fig vs 1 inf 1 arm 1 fig, and that’s to the defender usually.
Even if Ukraine wasn’t attacked and you send 1 inf 1 arm 2 fig at 1 inf 1 arm 1 fig, there’s about 80% chance you won’t take the territory (left with 1 or 2 figs, unless you want to sacrifice them to close the canal).
While you can hamstring the UK, you are at the same time hamstringing yourself.
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You can send the BB and tra for egy still and kill the BB at Gibraltar with 3 figs
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You can send the BB and tra for egy still and kill the BB at Gibraltar with 3 figs
Yuck! Big chance to lose 2 figs. If Russia attacked Ukraine, you have 5 figs. 1 used in SZ2, 3 used in SZ13, then you have 1 left between the destroyer or Egypt. Whichever battle you don’t use it in lowers your chances of getting anywhere.
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I see it this way: one Z8 sub goes to Z13 as fodder for an attack on that BB, and the other heads to Z2 or Z1, whichever. Now that I think about it though, you are really stretching out the Luftwaffe, but anyway…
So in the north atlantic, you are essentially trading a TRN for a sub. If you press the attack, you might trade a BB for some air units. Is that worth it? I’m thinking not.
You have 5-6 fighters and a bomber. Those have to:
- retake Belo if it was taken
- trade Karelia if Russia left an Inf there
- Help with Egypt
- Help with attacking the DD in Z14
- Help with attacking the BB in Z12
- land in WEU if possible to deter an Algeria landing in UK1/US1
I will always commit whatever I can to taking Egypt. If you fail to take it, not only is UK possibly up 1 Ftr, they can also bring 1 DD 1 TRN 1 AC into the mediterranean. That’s a lot more navy than 1 BB, and it will end Germany’s hopes of getting any income from Africa.
So 1 Ftr 1 Bom are going to Egypt, and if I can spare it, 1 to attack the DD in Z12. 2-3 ftrs minimum are needed for that, because if the BB lives any longer than 1 round, it’s very likely that you’ll lose an air unit.
The Bom is needed for egypt b/c that is priority #1, which leaves 1 Ftr 1 Sub at most to attack the north atlantic BB+TRN. Not a good attack.
I can see that if the dice are in your favour, that it could work out very well. But I think you’ll get burned more often than not.
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Someone played the Submarine to SZ 8 card on me. Russia took Norway on round 1. Threat to UK BB in SZ 2 ended.
More deadly would be the transport to SZ 14. Now you can carry 4 ground units out of the med on G2, that’s pretty significant.
And for the record, I’m not for forcing 2 games per opponent. But I am for heavily suggesting that the second game be flip sides. Maybe if the bids were logged we could arrange it so that when the second game is played, you get the bid you originally put in. Dunno how we’d do that though without some kind of cheating. (One player bids 8 IPC, the other bids 30 IPC to get 10 infantry on the rematch, etc.)
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There’s over a 50% chance not to take Norway. :|
If you’re desperate to clear that fighter and want to risk your fighter you can up it to about 70%, but that’s really desperate.
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Just build 3 Infantry, Armor, Fighter with Russia and kill a fighter if Norway goes bad. Thing is, you need to take Norway to end the landing zone and kill the fighter there.
I just happened to be lucky and take it with infantry, armor, fighter left when I did it.
Think of it this way. 1 Fighter for Russia is cheaper to replace then 1 Battleship and 1 Transport is for England to replace.
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Good reasoning, but the Germans also have to give up a lot to try to claim both BBs as well. They would be pitting 3 figs vs a bb, 1 inf 1 bom 2 sub against 1 bb 1 sub 1 tran which often loses them a fig if not a bom, and Egypt would be very risky. I’m kind of inclined to let them try it and get burned. That’s a lot of battles with success very far from guaranteed.
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There’s no reason to believe that an axis bid of G sub in sz7 is too powerful.
There’s 50% for G losing a ftr. G can retreat, but than means that UK navy survives.
I don’t see this often, but the triplea BC says +/- 76% for G victory, 1,5 G units left.I once had this done to me in LL, attacker hit with subs, (4 or less), I roll for Russian sub,
no hit, G attacks, and he got two hits!!
I didn’t hit with a 5 or less!! I NEVER forget that one. Never :cry: -
A 76% of chance of killing all alied ships with only 1 bomb and maybe a fig is a very good deal for Germany. Remember that if things go bad, you still can retreat, so you only risk badly the subs.
The chances are you’ll get 2 hits in firs round and allies 1 hit. 2nd round 1 or two for you, 1 for allies. Then BB is in a ugly situation.
It can screw totally the UK position at Atlantic at a 76 %. The people banned instant tech only for Sea Lion G1 , that has less % of success :-P
And if USSR make the Nor conquest move, better, it’s a USSR fig and armor killed and you still can go for z1 tra and z13 BB with the other sub :-D
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Retreating is not good, do you want the battleship to repair?
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Why does everyone presume Russia loses a fighter in the Norway attack?
I’ve never lost a fighter hitting Norway with Russia. I just end up with some pieces out of position, which I don’t like. But the out of position pieces is better then England blowing an entire round to rebuild a battleship, IMHO.
(3 Infantry, Fighter from Karelia; Armor from Archangelsk)
After all, that’s a 60% chance to take the land. All you really need is to kill the fighter there, since that reduces the attack to 2 submarines and a bomber vs battleship, transport, submarine. Those are not good odds.
If you couple that attack with a Ukraine attack, yum, potential of two fighters in Germany killed before G1….and he builds a carrier putting two more in the water and wow, you’ve neutralized or destroyed 4 defensive fighters on the land. WEG
The only problem is that the Norway attack is risky. It can easily go really well or really poorly for you.
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Why would you re-build a battleship? Build an AC; cheaper and achieves more for fleet defence once you land ftrs on it.
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@Ender:
Why would you re-build a battleship? Build an AC; cheaper and achieves more for fleet defence once you land ftrs on it.
Aircraft Carriers dont get free shots on the shore
Aircraft Carriers sink in one hit
Aircraft Carriers don’t attack well
Aircraft Carriers defend worse then Battleships (but they carry fighters.)And why throw away a perfectly good British Battleship when you can have both a battleship AND a carrier? As opposed to one or the other?
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Well, don’t think of it as throwing it away, think of it as trading in for a 3 fighters and a bomber (1 fighter 1 bomber in SZ2, 2 fighters in SZ13).
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Pretty bad rolls for ger? :-P As average, you should lose 1 or 2 figs (one on z1, other in z13). The fig in ukr is the classic R1, and I would like you try Nor, Wru and Ukr at the same R1 :lol:
Anyway, if USSR tries nor, the damage is done, and you can still hit Canada tra and z13 BB with subs
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Anyway, if USSR tries nor, the damage is done, and you can still hit Canada tra and z13 BB with subs
You mean just the SZ 8 Subs, because the SZ 13 BB is British at the point of Germany 1. :P