I like Imperial Leader’s idea - it would be great when playing a quicker game.
As tekkyy suggested, we could have national victory using your cards and individual victory using my system? Remember that this is an optional added degree of complexity. Players can use it, but if they don’t want to add the extra layer of complexity they can forgo it. IMO that means it’s ok if the system is complex…
I better like the list… its condenced better. I am afraid that the other idea is too much counting for players when the values are different for each player. Instead it should be represented with simple language. Lets try to get like 6 for each player. That way you could have 3 forms of victory:
perform any 2 = marginal victory
perform 4= substantive victory
perform all 6 = decisive victory
yes all these are certainly gonna with marked with “(optional)”
ok we might as well have it all
mission victory (optional)
national victory (optional)
individual victory (optional)
what to do now:
*comment on my list (for use in mission and national)
*comment on Adoni’s numbers (for use in individual victory)
I don’t like combining “mission” and “national” into this marginal/substantive/decisive victory thing though. This is because thats only good for a gauge of performance. Whereas I am hoping for “national” to push players to give nation and team equal priority.
OK
mission victory (optional)
national victory (optional)
individual victory (optional)
is good.
ok lets start criticizing and sugguesting changes to the list
in particular I was most unclear about Japan’s WWII goals/needs
I think they are great! what is not so good?
I duno
just that Japan was the one I made most changes
the other nations I used more of Adonai’s ideas
maybe you can pass them onto your friends (it seems like you have a group of regular players) to see what they think
Notice i made modifications on this:
Germany
Establish Lebensraum ~ End the game in control of Western Europe, Germany, Southern Europe, Norway, Eastern Europe, Balkans, Switzerland (if not neutral) and Spain (if not neutral).
Africa Campaign ~ End the game with Germany/Italy control of all british territories in Africa.
Conquer Russia ~ End the game in control of Russia.
Operation Sealion ~ Capture United Kingdom.
Defend the Fatherland ~ Always in control of Germany.
1000 year Reich ~ End of the game with 50+ IPC per turn of income
Italy (2 out of 3)
Establish new Roman Empire ~ End the game in control of Southern Europe, Balkans, Trans-Jordan, Anglo-Egypt, Libya, Algeria and Spain (if its not neutral).
Remain an important part of the Tripartite Pact ~ End the game with 25+ of income per turn.
Control the Mediterranean ~ End the game in control of Gibraltar, Algeria, Trans-Jordan, and Anglo-Egypt.
Japan
Conquer China ~ End the game in control of Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, and Kwangtung.
Establish Pacific Control ~ End the game in control of original islands and Midway Island, Hawaiian Islands, Australia and New Zealand ( control all pacific islands)
Post War Superpower ~ End the game with income level higher than Germany.
Secure Oil Resources ~ End the game in control of Anglo-Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Saudi Arbaia (whether neutral or not) and Persia plus her own territory of borneo/ east indies
Northern Buffer ~ End the game in control of Buryatia S.S.R, Soviet Far East, Mongolia, Alaska and Midway Island.
USSR
Eastern Europe Buffer ~ End the game in control of West Russia, Belorussia, Uktraine S.S.R., and Eastern Europe.
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before US or UK.
Protect Heavy Industry ~ Always in control of all factories and income level always 15 IPCs or greater.
East Asia Influence ~ End the game in control of Manchuria and Mongola (if its not neutral). Or end the game with no japanese in mainland Asia.
Expand Communism ~ End the game in control of Eastern Europe Buffer, Norway, Balkans and Turkey. Or end the game with majority control of majority control of Mongolia, Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, Kwangtung, and French Indochina.
UK
Preserve Colonial Empire ~ End the game in control of original territories, Solomon Islands and Borneo.
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before USSR or US.
Contain Communism ~ End the game with UK/US control of Western Europe, Southern Europe and Norway.
Battle for Britain ~ Do not allow United Kingdom territory to be invaded sucessfully.
Preserve Military Might ~ End the game with total value of units no less than 300 IPCs. ( this is very hard to deal with… too much accounting… ill come back with a solution latter
US
Contain Communism in Europe ~ End the game with UK/US control of Western Europe, Southern Europe, Norway. End the game with UK/US majority control of: Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, Kwangtung, and French Indochina.
Protect the americas: No axis units in adjacent seazones or in original US territories?
Maintain Public Support ~ Never lose more than 75 IPCs worth of units during a turn. ( hmmm this will take more thought… its good but i hate the accounting aspect of it
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before USSR or UK.
Occupy Japan ~ End the game in control of Japan.
I feel that these conditions are so good that they really enhance a historical feel for the game that never existed before. This add alot of new ideas of team competition that was never brought up before for the allies. Whoever came up with this list has touched the face of an Axis and Allies god.
we could deconstruct each nation seperately or just post the version you want>?
@Imperious:
I feel that these conditions are so good that they really enhance a historical feel for the game that never existed before. This add alot of new ideas of team competition that was never brought up before for the allies. Whoever came up with this list has touched the face of an Axis and Allies god.
Much of it is formed from Adonai’s list. He has been quietly working on this. :mrgreen:
Although we threw away the assosicated points system which now goes into individual victory.
Ok I’ve highlighted your modifications in bold so its easier
Germany
Establish Lebensraum ~ End the game in control of Western Europe, Germany, Southern Europe, Norway, Eastern Europe, Balkans, Switzerland (if not neutral) and Spain (if not neutral).
Africa Campaign ~ End the game with Germany/Italy control of all british territories in Africa.
Conquer Russia ~ End the game in control of Russia.
Operation Sealion ~ Capture United Kingdom.
Defend the Fatherland ~ Always in control of Germany.
1000 year Reich ~ End of the game with 50+ IPC per turn of income
Italy (2 out of 3)
Establish new Roman Empire ~ End the game in control of Southern Europe, Balkans, Trans-Jordan, Anglo-Egypt, Libya, Algeria and Spain (if its not neutral).
Remain an important part of the Tripartite Pact ~ End the game with 25+ of income per turn.
Control the Mediterranean ~ End the game in control of Gibraltar, Algeria, Trans-Jordan, and Anglo-Egypt.
Japan
Conquer China ~ End the game in control of Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, and Kwangtung.
Establish Pacific Control ~ End the game in control of original islands and Midway Island, Hawaiian Islands, Australia and New Zealand ( control all pacific islands)
Post War Superpower ~ End the game with income level higher than Germany.
Secure Oil Resources ~ End the game in control of Anglo-Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Saudi Arbaia (whether neutral or not) and Persia plus her own territory of borneo/ east indies
Northern Buffer ~ End the game in control of Buryatia S.S.R, Soviet Far East, Mongolia, Alaska and Midway Island.
USSR
Eastern Europe Buffer ~ End the game in control of West Russia, Belorussia, Uktraine S.S.R., and Eastern Europe.
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before US or UK.
Protect Heavy Industry ~ Always in control of all factories and income level always 15 IPCs or greater.
East Asia Influence ~ End the game in control of Manchuria and Mongola (if its not neutral). Or end the game with no japanese in mainland Asia.
Expand Communism ~ End the game in control of Eastern Europe Buffer, Norway, Balkans and Turkey. Or end the game with majority control of majority control of Mongolia, Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, Kwangtung, and French Indochina.
UK
Preserve Colonial Empire ~ End the game in control of original territories, Solomon Islands and Borneo.
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before USSR or US.
Contain Communism ~ End the game with UK/US control of Western Europe, Southern Europe and Norway.
Battle for Britain ~ Do not allow United Kingdom territory to be invaded sucessfully.
Preserve Military Might ~ End the game with total value of units no less than 300 IPCs. ( this is very hard to deal with… too much accounting… ill come back with a solution latter
US
Contain Communism in Europe ~ End the game with UK/US control of Western Europe, Southern Europe, Norway. End the game with UK/US majority control of: Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, Kwangtung, and French Indochina.
Protect the americas: No axis units in adjacent seazones or in original US territories?
Maintain Public Support ~ Never lose more than 75 IPCs worth of units during a turn. ( hmmm this will take more thought… its good but i hate the accounting aspect of it
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before USSR or UK.
Occupy Japan ~ End the game in control of Japan.
we could deconstruct each nation seperately or just post the version you want>?
Or you can even just post one item at a time. If its a complete new replacement then mention which rule you are replacing.
Finally, I comment on your modifcations.
Firstly, is this gonna be for turn-limited game? Or total victory game? It seems we can’t cater for all game modes. Like if a player surrenders or something. A couple of items can turn out funny.
Germany, African Campaign, change to British territories…good
Germany, 1000 Year Riech, 50+ IPC per turn of income…ok
Italy, Remain an important part of the Tripartite Pact, 25+ income per turn…ok
Japan, Secure Oil Resources, plus her own territory of borneo/ east indies…ok
Japan, Northern Buffer, Mongolia…should it be if not netural? but ok
USSR, Protect Heavy Industry, all factories…hmm, that would make me thinks twice before building new IC
USSR, East Asia Influence, with no japanese in mainland Asia…game mode question pops up! what is the purpose in a total victory game? if Japan surrenders their forces have to retreat out of Asia anyway
UK, Preserve Military Might, too much accounting…yeah, maybe to preserve control of “Trans Jordon” and India by having forces there, like after WWII US moved into “Trans Jordon” after diminishing UK/France control, and India revolted a few times
US, Protect the americas, No axis units in…sounds like more for turn-limited game mode, how about always in control of East+Central+West US + Alaska?
US, Maintain Public Support, accounting aspect…yeah, it would be done every turn lol
Umm… thanks for saying I touched a God. Not bad for me sitting down at a computer for a couple hours trying to create conditions because I had completely forgotten about the project until reminded pant :mrgreen:
Anyway, I’d like us to first discuss which would be the BEST way to utilise these ideas - ie which system we plan to use, as tekkyy said we need to determine when the rules could be used etc. After that’s cleared up we should go through it country by country, creating goals for each type of victory that work with eachother… just my take, though.
The system is as someone indicated… namely you pick 3 out of the 5 conditions. For longer games you have to pick 4 or even all 5 victory conditions… Victory cities can still be used but that is for team winners. national victory conditions are individual winners ( 1st , 2nd, 3rd)
individual: could use Adonai’s points system for individual winner, I mean if both US and UK achieve all 5 goals then what?
picking: by the way I wasn’t thinking of “picking” but you just accomplish 3 out of 5 to win “nationally”
system: I was thinking 3/5 goals for total victory games, if you make it all 5 things becomes predictable, it becomes a checklist rather than options
so if you feel 3/5 is too easy then add more goals or increase difficutly of individual goals
maybe we do some background research and add in one item/power to model the secret/unusual goals of WWII…possibly ones controverisal
German UFO’s? :|
Or more like Enigma…
GG
For individual victory conditions you need a certain number of VC in addition to the ones you start with. The victory cities are the only centers that need point values added to them. I might add that the values should be from 1-10 points and the values should be the same for each nation otherwise it may be too much accounting…
also we need to add Malta to the phase 3 map. It was a very strategic point.
I feel that gibrater and Malta should have more significace in the game than territories devoid of value. The loss of either would have major problems for england.
Further i was thinking about convoy boxes (ala AA europe/ Pacific) I know we have addressed economic attacks on individual territorys, but the sea lanes also represent the interception of income that was dependant on colonies ( mostly UK, Japan, and USA) but we could/ should add a convoy box for italy that could be attacked from malta. This would be accurate. attacking the box could be just roll d6= lost IPC or roll 1-2=1 ipc, 3-4=2 ipc, 5-6=4 ipc lost
I suggested that during Phase 1! Personally I am all for it… Possibly a system of Economic transfer more then Extra money i.e. IPC goes onto Convoy…
GG
So then you mean they have a value as they do in AA Europe? so that no more than 3 or 4 points can be destroyed from them?
