The most effective russian players I’ve encountered are the ones that are able to build up a force that is able to threaten a counter on a german stack. If a good german player wants to go for Moscow they are able to get it, however I’ve seen plenty games where the UK/USA are putting enough pressure on the German player for him to stop just in front of Moscow. If the Russian player only has bought inf at this point there is not much of a threat for the German player to keep russia contained and slowly kill it economically. However if there is a stack of paired inf/art the pushback power is a lot bigger and thus Germany can be challenged and Russia may be able to break the German wall.
Ramdas Vaidyanathan has a new move called "Ram's Mahatma Gambit" -
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I can’t help but think that you give ‘the siberians in the east’ too much credit.
Mon Ami ItIsILeClerc , you have a Eurocentric Defensive Approach, I have a AsiaCentric Offensive Approach . Let’s say we have different Allied philosophies, and agree to disagree… as I think you give the Soviet20 too little credit :-)
I admit if Russia moves into Amur in force, Japan should not stack SEAsia with all its air but kill the Russians instead. This gives the Chinese exactly 1 extra turn to survive but the Russians are permanently dead in the east (as well as in Moscow, but that’s another story)… No matter what Russia does in the east, Japan will Always win, at the cost of only 1 turn delay in China. Well, IMHO that’s not worth loosing all Siberians for.
TMG is played correctly affects Japan for 4 turns , not 1 !!!
- It affects the J2 combat , where the TR’s in HK are frozen for combat , in case Japan goes for J2 strike.
- It affects J3 combat by freezing the newly bought TR’s that cannot be pre-loaded.
- It affects J4 by making the Japanese go NORTH - to SZ 5 !!! to kill the Soviet20 in AMUR… after they withdraw… if indeed Japan wants to chase them down!
- Then at SZ 5 in Amur… Japanese Trs and Navy? are out of position to hit any of their major NO …or objectives… only on J5… Japan comes back to its “steady state”… by which time US is ready to move![/color[/size]]
If J1 Non-Combat move ends with 2-3 Japanese TR *UNLOADED * in SZ 20 ( Off Hong Kong) … J2 itself will be frozen THE MOMENT TMG is played!.. if Japan had plans for a J2 strike that is. Now if Japan keeps the TR’s Loaded… at the end of J1… then TMG need not be played. Then on USSR2… the Siberians start their march back to Moscow… reaching there on R7 in a force of 18. China is very happy at not having to fight reinforcements that Japan did not unload
BUT…… if the 2-3 TRs are UNLOADED off HK… at and of J1… and The CV arm of Navy is not all there… &/ Kwangsi does NOT have the 14+ Aircraft at end of J1 … afraid iam giving away too much here… then play TMG ! This will make Japan’s life miserable immediately! J2 will sound like a muffled fart… rather than the explosive impact it has. J2 will NOT get Japan ANYTHING except Hong Kong and killing 3 UK Ships… OR HK and Phillippines…IF they declare on the US… That is all! And US is in the war! Then continuing the thought process… the Soviet20 need NOT attack!.. they can just sit there and Tie up 14-16+ Japanese units… wait for the IJN fleet to move The One move furthur … into DEI/MALAYA… and then strike on USSR4! they will be safe then. The J2 buy will be different… If it cannot “borrow” from Manchuria or Korea… Japan has to pay IPCs to build these units… so …instead of the 3-4 empty TR + CV…it will have 1-2 Loaded TR+CV … that means 2 less targets “hittable” later…
If Japan does NOT do J2 …. seeing the futility of it… and does NOT stack Manchuria/Korea with land troops…AND KEEP beaucoup Airstrike nearby… the Soviet20 strike with the plane(s)… and take Korea and or Manchuria wiping out upto 12 maybe 14 units there…Now … again… this is if Japan does not not have enough Land+Air Combo to kill it off.
If Japan stacks Manchuria and Korea… and keeps beaucoup Airunits at end of J1… then…do a J2 strike… hmm… J2 strike again a whimper! It is likely an either…or scenario… but it gives Allies everything they need to see before they decide.
Hence the timing is crucial…. TMG must be done then and there on J1… a turn later may be too late…
The last thing Japan can do is buy 3 TR on J1 … and keep all available Air it can spare in the vicinity where it can hit Amur. Because there are 2-3 unloaded TRs in HK, UK1 plays TMG on UK1 … USSR then can decide to move to Amur taking the risk on USSR 2 . If Japan kills the Soviet 20… USSR gets the 6 Mongolian units as a bonus… and Japan did not declare on UK+US … fine… but its Air Arm is out of position to help on a J3 strike. UK2 can just be a retreat to Burma with all Naval ( HK has a Naval Base) … and ANZAC may… or may not declare war on Japan…
But this again comes at a price for Japan…. to kill Soviet20… it loses troops… and maybe planes shot down by the 2 AAA… it loses TEMPO! Its TRs are out of position… It pretty much changes the OBJECTIVES of Japan… from taking the DEI and PHP and dominating Southern Pacific and killing China… to pretty much help Germany in killing Russia !
I mean think of the repurcussions…. and this happens before… repeat… before US2… so on US2… Allies can go with the comforting thought that India, Sydney and Hawaii are pretty safe as long as they play conservatively. US + Allies can choose KJF … so long as Egypt seems safe… results of Taranto or Tobruk will be in…
Lastly, should Japan NOT kill the Soviet20 , nor do a J2 strike… UK has the option on UK2… go back to SZ38 with the BB etc… OR do TMG deferred… where you still move the UK BB to SZ 6 … and DD to SZ 36 or 20 … wherever there are Max TRs… and ANZAC again… may… or may NOT declare war… depending.
What does this crazy sacrifice do… well all Japanese TRs are again frozen… If USSR3 was an attack and wipeout of Korea or Manchuria… then… Japan cannot on Combat turn take it out… If these places were stacked… and USSR did not attack… then J3 strike is a muffled whimper… as most TRs cannot do combat loading…
I hope you see the possibilities and the potential here.
Again… TMG is played to minimize J2…and only when J1 Non-Combat moves are favorable…( ie: check Japanese Navy, Air and TR locations) … NOT ALL THE TIME!
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If you are a Chess player or are aware of moves, consider this :
TMG = Queen Sacrifice to achieve Zugzwang !!!
The UK BB is the Queen, sacrificed to COMPEL the Japanese player to make a move, any move… that will weaken him :)
As a pretty highly rated FIDE player, your comparison, while compelling, isn’t really relevant.
Hi Dizz and Cyanknight…
Methinks that : A&A = ChessxRisk
:lol:
I play chess well, yes. True. And have won College level and City level championships.
Also a member of MENSA :roll:
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So, gentlemen, now that we’re talking chess: what are your ratings?
Just out of curiosity, really…… and to put some comments into perspective. I apologize for being off-topic, and maybe when the weekend comes and I have some time on my hands, I may have a comment on the actual tactic being discussed here.
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Lol, you should stop using all the colors (at least in my quotes) :roll:, I can’t focus my eyes anymore :-D.
Too hard to make out the difference between what I wrote and your reply.
Better only use 1 color for your reply and leave in black what you quote. Much better to distingiush ;-).Well, let’s agree to disagree then!
I am indeed more ‘GIF-minded’ (not in the least place because JF seems to be the only way for the allies nowadays), and you are more into the Asia-offensive and that’s ok, ofc. But that’s not why our opinions differ.
I just can’t agree with your claim to have found an allied move that Japan cannot work around without shooting in its own foot and so I try to explain a few (out of many) work arounds Japan has at its disposal. As much as I am willing to accept (even hope for) allied ploys that can fight the axis just a little bit better, I cannot help but play advocate of the devil with any such claims!@Herr:
So, gentlemen, now that we’re talking chess: what are your ratings?
Just out of curiosity, really…… and to put some comments into perspective. I apologize for being off-topic, and maybe when the weekend comes and I have some time on my hands, I may have a comment on the actual tactic being discussed here.
Please enlighten us HerrKaleun!
Always a pleasure to read your comments. Should be fun to have 2 ‘Herrn’ in 1 thread :P.I used to play a lot of Chess, but years ago. I was a fine match to a friend who was with a chessclub but I don’t know what his rating was. So, clueless >.<
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Oh, I’m old now in chess terms lol….
Back before computers were good at chess (almost 20 years ago), I was a good correspondence player – I stopped playing once computers were too involved. 2240+ USCF before my “retirement” :)
Currently my USCF over-the-board rating is 2023, FIDE is 2026 (peak over the past year was 2070). It’s fun to go to the large tournaments and see all of the people playing – especially the youngsters, who in this generation will remain off of electronic devices and maintain focus for 6 hour games – unusual in this electronic age!
I used to direct tournaments as well. At some point I may go back to teaching small groups – anything to help humans maintain the ability to think and reflect, a skill that seems to be disappearing in this world…
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Please enlighten us HerrKaleun!
Always a pleasure to read your comments. Should be fun to have 2 ‘Herrn’ in 1 thread :P.Why, thank you! That’s a nice compliment.
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Oh, I’m old now in chess terms lol….
Back before computers were good at chess (almost 20 years ago), I was a good correspondence player – I stopped playing once computers were too involved. 2240+ USCF before my “retirement” :)
Currently my USCF over-the-board rating is 2023, FIDE is 2026 (peak over the past year was 2070). It’s fun to go to the large tournaments and see all of the people playing – especially the youngsters, who in this generation will remain off of electronic devices and maintain focus for 6 hour games – unusual in this electronic age!
I used to direct tournaments as well. At some point I may go back to teaching small groups – anything to help humans maintain the ability to think and reflect, a skill that seems to be disappearing in this world…
That’s a very respectable level indeed. And a story that I know all too well myself…. I was quite active and pretty strong once, but that’s more than 20 years ago. Kudos for your organizational efforts - the chess world depends on the hard work of many volunteers.
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I play chess well, yes. True. And have won College level and City level championships.
Also a member of MENSA :roll:
Whatever. Can you roll dice?
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As regards perfect strategy:
With the rules as they are , I will say YES!There is a perfect strategy for the Allies.
Will not mention it though, because if i do, they will change the rules of this game.
In fact, I shall not even give a hint … because I truly love this game as it is.
All Iam willing to say is that… If I were to play Allies… i do not want ANY money… in fact Iam willing to GIVE the AXIS 10 IPC .
You may think iam arrogent, but i assure iam not. If i tell it, then , everyone is going to slap their foreheads and say … “Of course”… and then will come a Rule Change.
With TMG, already there are people asking for rule changes… not giving me credit for the name etc… that is as far as i would like to stretch it.
Started playing ( in fact “discovered” ) GLOBAL in Oct 2013… and believe iam very proficient in it.
There is ONE guaranteed way , with current rules ALLIES will always win.
I leave it you all to come up with it.
MeinHerr
PS: It always amuses me , when i see 25 IPC bid for Allies from Axis… and i shake my head… oh… if you only knew… :)
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As regards perfect strategy:
With the rules as they are , I will say YES!There is a perfect strategy for the Allies.
Will not mention it though, because if i do, they will change the rules of this game.
In fact, I shall not even give a hint … because I truly love this game as it is.
All Iam willing to say is that… If I were to play Allies… i do not want ANY money… in fact Iam willing to GIVE the AXIS 10 IPC .
You may think iam arrogent, but i assure iam not. If i tell it, then , everyone is going to slap their foreheads and say … “Of course”… and then will come a Rule Change.
With TMG, already there are people asking for rule changes… not giving me credit for the name etc… that is as far as i would like to stretch it.
Started playing ( in fact “discovered” ) GLOBAL in Oct 2013… and believe iam very proficient in it.
There is ONE guaranteed way , with current rules ALLIES will always win.
I leave it you all to come up with it.
MeinHerr
PS: It always amuses me , when i see 25 IPC bid for Allies from Axis… and i shake my head… oh… if you only knew… :)
Wow with a whole year under your belt, you have devise a perfect strat that exploits the rules and guarantees an allied victory (even w/10 IPC bid for axis). Arrogant (you spelled it wrong BTW) isn’t exactly the word that comes to mind.
There has been several holes pointed out by the others.
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Call it what you want, but having the UK move into position to block in some way, then having the Anz DOW has been exploited for quite a long time. It has to be a perfect storm, and the Japanese would have to help by missing the obvious (moving that British BB into harms way would be a huge red flag).
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If you use the above and manage to get a UK war ship to a sz for the purpose of blocking out the Japanese fleet, or stopping the Japanese from loading transports that is awesome. I could see something like that happening in sz 36 if the Japanese (not yet at war) gather there to launch an assault on the next turn. I can’t see it being more then a one trick pony though?
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If UK/Anz DOW Japan first, then the Japanese can ignore any US blockers because this would be an unprovoked DOW by UK/ANZ. The US is held out of the war until the end of US3, when it can DOW on its own unless the axis are foolish enough to directly attack them (would have to be a pretty big carrot dangling). So in retrospect the US wouldn’t really be a threat until US4 when they can perform attacks. So in light of this Java could become a target w/J2 attack, and the US would stand by and watch. Also keep in mind that on the Euro side the US basically can’t even leave port until at war. That means that US4 is the earliest they could be at say Gibraltar, then US 5 before they are a real threat (if they go Europe).
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If you place that British BB off Kwangtung, and give me a second look at it, along with a dd, and a couple allied transports at various locations (all with-in striking range) there is no way that I don’t do a J2 attack (it’s my personal favorite anyway). So that BB will never make it to the Sea of Japan, but you would get the US into the war early.
As for the Siberians, I agree that they can help to overload the Japanese. Give them to much to do, and they end up spreading themselves thin and start losing valuable units. The Germans would probably be ok w/J2 attack, if the Siberians are out of their picture though. The Germans would most likely follow up a J2 attack w/G2 Barbarossa. The question is what has the US done to prepare themselves for an early entry into the war if axis go full tilt turn 2.
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It is what it is.
You know… sometimes… there is a point when you think … way outside the box… and then think… oh surely…NO… this is not possible… then add it up… go back… and understand that it is… that’s how i figured it out.
Yes… just over a year. As i said… it will ruin it for everyone… from now on… i say NO MORE about it.
We shall just go back to the good old regular game.
In fact… i think i should stop writing here.
Just hope when someone else every stumbles and bumbles over it, they have the sense to keep it to themselves too.
But hey, you heard it from me… first time… against the grain of current thought… to restate…
MeinHerr says: " Given current rules and current placements and current IPC and unit values, there is a way that ALLIES will win ( barring crazy dice roles) EVERY SINGLE TIME "
OK. Peace out!
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MeinHerr, I probably came over pretty abrasive (sorry for that).
I will say that there are some exploits in the rules, and they are fun to find, but rarely do you get to use them more then 1-2 times (the gig is up).
It’s just like the first time the US takes Denmark (opens the straight), then the Royal Navy rushes in kills off the Luftwaffe scramblers (from a heavily defended W Germany) to sack on undefended Berlin with a single loaded transport. It only happens once!
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Agreed and understood.
Fact is that if one thinks about it logically… one will find the solution. Take away the passion, think of it as a mathematical problem, Voila! You have it.
Would like folks to use the Holidays , folks like Young Grasshopper, Cow, ItsLeClerc, Elk, Dizz, Cyanknight, you M’sieur , Wittman… all the great minds…( yes… have been reading for a long time… ) and others… who i may have missed… play it out… and you will come with the solution.
I would venture to say, at least… the game now… is very very balanced. Kudos to the gamedesigners.
Probably my last post till next week.
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What you would like to see is already happening 8-).
I have been (still) spending lots of my spare time into finding solutions. I have done so for 5 years now and I must admit I changed opinion of the gamebalance a few times. I think all this works the same for almost every1 in these forums.First, I thought the allies were unbeatable so I worked on that problem and quickly fixed it. Lol, to a point where I started to think it was actually the other way around! The axis were unbeatable!
So I worked on that, gave the allies more (mathematical) thought and I found solutions. Allies were back in the biz again! Even thought they were unbeatable (again ;-))! I think you have landed at this point a bit quicker than I/most of us did, but still; there IS a next phase:Currently I am (somewhat) back at square 1 because I gained a bit more experience. And for the first time in 5 years I am unable to find a satisfactory solution. ‘JF’ seems to be the best way to go for the allies by far and I find that too limiting for a grand strategy WW2 game.
I admit that this is largely because I usually lack the time but (above all) the will to complete a game after it is dragging on to turn 14 without a clear winner, but purely mathematically ‘JF’ is definately much better than ‘GIF’ which just doesn’t feel right (a rather demoralizing effect).I do believe that there is a last and final phase in understanding the gamebalance, but also that it has to do everything with playing 20+ turns of different kinds of strategy to know for certain what will happen. By now I’m too ‘streetwise’ to know it’s got nothing to do with 1 or 2 moves the allies (or axis) can do during the game openers. No offense, of course!
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What you would like to see is already happening 8-).
I have been (still) spending lots of my spare time into finding solutions. I have done so for 5 years now and I must admit I changed opinion of the gamebalance a few times. I think all this works the same for almost every1 in these forums.First, I thought the allies were unbeatable so I worked on that problem and quickly fixed it. Lol, to a point where I started to think it was actually the other way around! The axis were unbeatable!
So I worked on that, gave the allies more (mathematical) thought and I found solutions. Allies were back in the biz again! Even thought they were unbeatable (again ;-))! I think you have landed at this point a bit quicker than I/most of us did, but still; there IS a next phase:Currently I am (somewhat) back at square 1 because I gained a bit more experience. And for the first time in 5 years I am unable to find a satisfactory solution. ‘JF’ seems to be the best way to go for the allies by far and I find that too limiting for a grand strategy WW2 game.
I admit that this is largely because I usually lack the time but (above all) the will to complete a game after it is dragging on to turn 14 without a clear winner, but purely mathematically ‘JF’ is definately much better than ‘GIF’ which just doesn’t feel right (a rather demoralizing effect).I do believe that there is a last and final phase in understanding the gamebalance, but also that it has to do everything with playing 20+ turns of different kinds of strategy to know for certain what will happen. By now I’m too ‘streetwise’ to know it’s got nothing to do with 1 or 2 moves the allies (or axis) can do during the game openers. No offense, of course!
I stick to my statement. Maybe in some convention or a big Meetup, will demo it. Surely if folks have been working on it for 5 year, they should have hit on it by now :roll:
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On reflection, apologies ItIsIleClerc .
One may not see it ever.
Either it strikes you as an idea or not.
So… since… maybe i am wrong, … i shall test this hypotheses. Maybe a rule change will be needed to save the game. Hope they at least name the rule change after me :roll:
I shall give one clue - every single day, just one… till either it is proven correct… or proven wrong. If wrong, then with humility, i shall eat humble pie.
But , if iam correct… what do i stand to gain… fame… or infamy…? ( Materialistic notions are not even being considered, nor requested ).
I hope to get my name into the books one way or an other ( Either on my move… or the rule change ).
OK… drum roll :
Clue 1 ( Dec 5th, 2014) : The fun begins on R3 .
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You are making a fool of yourself meinherr. Play a league game.
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Are you sure , that you do not have a tweeny-weeny doubt nibbling in the back of your mind … maybe he has it?!
I was reluctant at first, because thought it’ll affect my move… but on reflection… there is another smaller, better and niftier way to deal with that. Hence wrote what i did.
Did take into account “Cow”'s fantastic - J1 offense. In fact, to be honest it was my biggest challenge to overcome. OK.
Happy thinking :evil:
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