AARHE: Phase 3: land Combat

[tekkyy]

@Imperious:

Yes and thats something you wanted a while back… i think it would reflect the war better… the air combat values have to be possibly modified to the 1-2 range or entire air force may get wiped out in a single turn.

Oh no. Imperious Leader. I thought we could do multiple cycles of dogfighting already? (with dogfighting values and as long as you have land units left in the territory)
I only made a small change from that.

[tekkyy]

@rawdawg:

A bomber fires in the opening step, casualties are removed immediately.

Yep currently we let bombers fire in opening-fire. Althoght it is dogfighting rather than bombing if the other side has air units too.

[rawdawg]

So we are going to allow bombers to dogfight? Or are they going to have to take hits with out being able to hit the fighters back?

[Guerrilla Guy]

They are more like “stuck” to dogfight… Wouldn’t you rather bomb the IC without facing the fighters…

[Imperious Leader]

So we are going to allow bombers to dogfight? Or are they going to have to take hits with out being able to hit the fighters back?

Bombers dont dogfight… rather they are set up in box formation to prevent loses. That way they can cover all the firing angles… look at them like naval transports in the air… they have a payload and only are destroyed as a last resort. They can defend at 1 in air combat.

[tekkyy]

hm…

so you want to make BMR like 0/1 in dogfight…basically struck to “dogfighting” until enemy planes are gone…

and then for SBR, BMR can somehow skip the dogfighting…I mean we not allowing multiple cycles for SBR so it has to be

[Imperious Leader]

SBR is only a one round thing. Thats the only time where this occurs. everything else is based on MP= rounds of combat… as long as both sides want it and dont retreat.

[tekkyy]

so you want BMR to dogfight at 0/1
what about Heavy BMR? Jet BMR? actually its “Advanced BMR” now

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there is more to think about before having that “MP = no of rounds of further combat” rule
say it only applies when you the air units in question can’t land/rearm there

*when you have no land units and enemy has land units
for SZs
*when the “naval fighters” have no carriers to land on in the SZ, or
*when its non-naval air units fightting in SZ

and there has to be a friendly territory adjacent to the combat zone
and we still got to think what if there was pending combat in that friendly territory

I am actually ok with the current rules
“At the end of a land combat cycle, if only one side has land units remainig the other side must retreat.”

or the older version
“When only one side has land units at the beginning of a combat cycle, the other side must retreat at the end of the cycle unless those land units retreat at that time.”

then we allow 2 cycles instead of 1 cycle of air combat without friendly land units
so its works out the same, without being complicated

[Imperious Leader]

yea ok but again the two round thing precludes any retreats by either side? Or we are faced with getting stuck with air combat for two rounds?

[tekkyy]

yeah this 2 cycle further combat thing precludes unlimited cycles of air combat while you have land units or carrier capacity

but then I just realised

“When only one side has land units at the beginning of a combat cycle, the other side must retreat at the end of the cycle unless those land units retreat at that time.”

still only allows for 1 cycle not 2

[tekkyy]

I have difficulty trying to formalise/word the air interdiction rule.

How does it interact with normal combat?
Is it a limit to air interdiction power with interdiction units relative to interdicted units?
Shall we limit it to BMR’s saturation level bombing…

[tekkyy]

Its complicated.

[Imperious Leader]

OK post the language verbatum and ill rephrase it so you can possibly have a better angle to explain it. If it take a lot of space dont worry ill do it all… :-P

[tekkyy]

What you’ve mentioned before is not detailed. I was trying filling in the gaps but found it complex.

Special combat: Air interdiction

During your turn BMRs may be placed in territories on air interdiction missions. The BMRs do not participate in combat this turn and remain in the territories until your next turn. Interdiction missions in a territory is cancelled if there are enemy air units at the end of your turn, at which point the BMRs retreat to friendly territories with remaining movement points. During the enemy’s turn, each land unit moving into or out of a territory under your air interdiction mission rolls a dice a the end of “Combat Move” phase for each BMR. On a 1 the unit is destroyed, on a 2 the unit fails to enter or leave the territory. Interdiction missions in a territory is also cancelled if enemy air units attack the territory during the enemy’s turn. Normal land combat occurs in this case, except the BMR may only retreat to a friendly territory with the remaining movement points from your last turn.

Unlike close air support, air interdiction missions attack and disrupt movement of enemy armies, rather than working in direct support of friendly armies.

If it take a lot of space dont worry ill do it all…

Or we could go without it :-P

[Adonai]

That sounds great.

[Imperious Leader]

small change:  “Interdiction missions in a territory is also cancelled”

to

Interdiction missions in a territory are also cancelled

[tekkyy]

ok I change

“Interdiction missions in a territory is cancelled if there are enemy air units at the end of your turn, at which point the BMRs retreat to friendly territories with remaining movement points.”

to

“Interdiction missions in a territory are cancelled if there are enemy air units at the end of your turn, at which point the BMRs retreat to friendly territories with remaining movement points.”

and

“Interdiction missions in a territory is also cancelled if enemy air units attack the territory during the enemy’s turn.”

to

“Interdiction missions in a territory are also cancelled if enemy air units enter the territory during the enemy’s turn.”

[tekkyy]

During discussion of Straits Interdiction (Gilbratar, Denmark, English Channel…) we thought air units should be included.

But currently we have already…

Defensive Air Support (DAS)
Declare in enemy’s turn, air units can defend in adjacent territory or sea zones instead.

Air Interdiction
Declare in your turn, air units stay in a territory and remain there until next turn or interrupted by enemy air units.

So I propose changing Air Interdiction to a rapid response movement like DAS. Declare during enemy’s turn.That way it goes along with Strait Interdiction better.

I don’t want a special/extra air interdiction within Strait Interdiction because thats not a good model IMO. Fighters can’t be in two places at the same time.

[Imperious Leader]

sure just use DAS in place of straights interdiction. we certainly dont need any special air mission for this. Basically DAS covers any defensive response in combat.

[tekkyy]

Wait a minute.
DAS at a strait sea zone would start a normal combat.
The hostile naval units gets to shoot back.

Its not the same as Interdiction.