2015 League General Discussion Thread

[gamerman01]

Triple A still has limited instances of the naval retreat bug.  I posted a bug ticket on the appropriate website.

I attacked a lone sub with destroyer/fighter and after round 1 it immediately rolled round 2 dice without prompting for retreat option.  Now normally in this kind of battle you would never want to retreat anyway, but I wonder what other instances (probably involving subs only) this will happen.

You’ve been warned

[Adam514]

Hmm 91.1% Axis win ratio in tier E…

For what it’s worth Gamer I think you are underestimating Axis-dominion or overestimating tier E. But I do agree that subjectiveness needs to be minimized in a ranking system. I don’t see a perfect solution to future PAAs though.

[Adam514]

And uh why is there one more Allied win than Axis loss in the grand total?

[gamerman01]

I always catch those within a couple of days.

Did you not look at the data for opponents by tiers for Axis-dominion?  To me it’s obvious he’s upper tier 1.  Anyway, it’s purely numbers.  Underestimating Axis-dominion?  Maybe.  And maybe you’re underestimating me.  I am bearing down on a repeat title that requires 3 playoff wins each year against the top players to achieve, and I was never really in trouble in any of those 6 games.  No disrespect to any of my opponents.

[gamerman01]

Thanks for pointing it out - it was from when I was undoing JWW’s result against Pherman - I didn’t change a 3 to a 2.  Like I said, I would have caught it soon enough, but thanks

[gamerman01]

@Adam514:

For what it’s worth Gamer I think you are underestimating Axis-dominion or overestimating tier E.

And I think you’re underestimating tier E.  Maybe you just don’t think highly enough about your own skills

I don’t see a perfect solution to future PAAs though.

You don’t need to, but thanks.  That’s what I’m here for  :-D

[Adam514]

@Gamerman01:

I always catch those within a couple of days.

Did you not look at the data for opponents by tiers for Axis-dominion?  To me it’s obvious he’s upper tier 1.  Anyway, it’s purely numbers.  Underestimating Axis-dominion?  Maybe.  And maybe you’re underestimating me.  I am bearing down on a repeat title that requires 3 playoff wins each year against the top players to achieve, and I was never really in trouble in any of those 6 games.  No disrespect to any of my opponents.

Yeah I did look, but after the recent changes even I could be considered as ‘‘preying’’ on tier 2s since I have 15 games tier 2 and under.

Maybe you only won the playoffs because I wasn’t in them  :wink:. Just joking, it’s of course possible that I’m underestimating you and/or tier E.

[gamerman01]

@Adam514:

Yeah I did look, but after the recent changes even I could be considered as ‘‘preying’’ on tier 2s since I have 15 games tier 2 and under.

No, this is good, because this is what some people complain about - that you can’t get a game with a tier E.  You played 15 yourself.  I’m preying on 2 right now - nothing wrong with that - just don’t expect a sky high PPG, you know?

Maybe you only won the playoffs because I wasn’t in them  :wink:. Just joking, it’s of course possible that I’m underestimating you and/or tier E.

:-) Thank you, I really appreciate that.  Maybe we will face off in the playoffs.  I might be in 2 playoffs at the same time  :oops: because I had to let the Zhukov game go for about a month when I was in busy season.  He even bumped me  :lol:

[axis-dominion]

ghost, just a warning!

if you lose to gamer, you will fall down to tier 1, and guess what gamer would say. yep, you guess it:

there has been a correction, and you never deserved to be a tier E to begin with. you are now where you always really belonged, which is a high tier 1.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

and that would also mean that gamer is playing in the championship against a tier 1……how cool is that?

[axis-dominion]

of course, i consider it absurd that ghost would be anything but an E. but this is just another horrendous consequence of PAA  :lol:

@axis-dominion:

ghost, just a warning!

if you lose to gamer, you will fall down to tier 1, and guess what gamer would say. yep, you guess it:

there has been a correction, and you never deserved to be a tier E to begin with. you are now where you always really belonged, which is a high tier 1.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

and that would also mean that gamer is playing in the championship against a tier 1……how cool is that?

[gamerman01]

And Ghost would be 5-4.

Before that game is finished, which might not even be by 10/31 which would make your point invalid, Ghost could very well have another result come in.

Look, we all get that you’re bummed that the rankings shook out again with an avalanche effect and you’re not as high as you think you should be.  I also get that’s it’s enjoyable to make your case.  But enough, already.  JWW tried to help you out by giving up his win with Pherman.  Ripple effects can happen when seemingly insignificant members record game results - could be someone you weren’t even aware was in the league.

I’m not sure why I’m even entertaining your complaints and jabs at this point.  I’m just following the league rules as established a year ago, and no one had a problem with the forfeit rules until now.

[gamerman01]

JWW was right, it’s just a game and it’s all about having fun, and this is not fun.  This is whining after being disappointed, and you don’t like your label of high tier 1, that is assigned to you by the math.

[axis-dominion]

just giving ghost an extra incentive to make sure he doesn’t lose haha ok ok, i will stop now. you’re right, i have made my point only too clear, and it’s time to move on.

btw i decided to resume my game with souL after all.

@Gamerman01:

And Ghost would be 5-4.

Before that game is finished, which might not even be by 10/31 which would make your point invalid, Ghost could very well have another result come in.

Look, we all get that you’re bummed that the rankings shook out again with an avalanche effect and you’re not as high as you think you should be.  I also get that’s it’s enjoyable to make your case.  But enough, already.  JWW tried to help you out by giving up his win with Pherman.  Ripple effects can happen when seemingly insignificant members record game results - could be someone you weren’t even aware was in the league.

I’m not sure why I’m even entertaining your complaints and jabs at this point.  I’m just following the league rules as established a year ago, and no one had a problem with the forfeit rules until now.

[gamerman01]

Oh yes, I will undo that result, thanks for the reminder

[gamerman01]

By the way, it’s the playoffs from the 2014 year, when Ghost was 12-4.  Me1945 was 12-0, and Ghost was able to upset him in round 2, so that’s how he got to be playing in the championship game.  Great 2014, and a great playoff run.

[axis-dominion]

@Gamerman01:

By the way, it’s the playoffs from the 2014 year, when Ghost was 12-4.  Me1945 was 12-0, and Ghost was able to upset him in round 2, so that’s how he got to be playing in the championship game.  Great 2014, and a great playoff run.

yah, i saw that me blundered tokyo over to him. i not only play a lot, i follow a lot too  :-)

[gamerman01]

Well, I had to study up a little bit since I was playing him, and I only looked at the first couple rounds.  Me’s aggressive G1 got diced, and that’s all I needed to see

[Zhukov44]

So let’s say someone attacks an sz with multiple subs.

Can you submerge 1 sub and retreat the other to another sz?  Or does the decision to retreat precede the decision to submerge, meaning that both subs have to either retreat or submerge?

Here’s the game thread for reference.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36650.0

[Zhukov44]

With regard to the ratings……one thing I learned via playing on the TripleA ladder is that the most accurate A&A ratings are obtained by making each match-up a 2-game series where both players play both sides at the same bid.  In the 1941 anniversary ladder, it was necessary to be an expert at both sides to top the ratings.

It seems to me that Gamer’s ranking system is about as accurate as we can do short of adopting the model of 2 games with different sides at the same bid.

[bmnielsen]

Actually what Zhukov just said sparked something I’ve been thinking about for a while about how we do bidding and what it means.

My understanding is that the primary purpose of bidding is to balance the game, i.e. offset the inherent advantage the axis has in the base setup. But the way we do bidding actually introduces a second purpose: handicapping the players based on how good they are with a certain side. We’ve all seen comments to the effect of “I would never play X at a bid lower than Y”, which is a sign that this also happens. No matter what, different players have different ideas of what a reasonable bid is, which is influenced both by their own relative strengths with the sides and their opponent’s.

Personally I’ve been spiralling farther and farther from ever playing with the Allies - as I play more Axis games and get better at playing the Axis, the bid I’m willing to accept increases, so I keep playing more Axis games, etc.

Now, I’m not necessarily saying that this is a problem or that it should be changed, I just think it’s interesting from a game theory perspective :)

It might be fun though to have a league standard bid (+25 or +30 or whatever people think is reasonable) and have the sides decided by a dice roll at the start of the game. I like the 2-game match idea as well, but it might not be practical with the length of time it takes to play global games.