2015 League General Discussion Thread

[gamerman01]

I don’t think I’ve ever taken Moscow more than maybe twice.  So you don’t have a game where the Axis need to be urgent or take over victory cities or anything.  They just need middle east money and a lot of Russian and Chinese money, the money islands, and the Allies shrivel up and die.

[Adam514]

Yeah VC wins often become a last resort for the Axis unfortunately, but the Allies need to cover it the whole game just in case.

[666]

@Gamerman01:

OK, this just in.  Ghost took Allies over Bold in the playoffs, so it’s

Axis - 3
Allies - 3
in this year’s playoffs

well this give’s me hope…thanks for all of this Gamerman…A 21 bid is your breakeven? Wow I don’t think I have ever given someone so much but I have gotten as much and lost too!

Perhaps I need to refine my allies game and of course get the right bid, smart placement and good dice, LOL

[gamerman01]

No, 21 is not my breakeven -

I gave Ghost 21 even though he is an allied specialist and I don’t think his Axis game is as strong as his Allied.  So I gave him less than I would to someone else  :-)

[gamerman01]

And it is interesting to note, that you are 7-2 as Axis, and 2-2 as Allies
Also, you have defeated some stronger opponents as Axis, but not as Allies
At a glance, I think you, like probably pretty much all of us, are bidding too low

[666]

@Gamerman01:

And it is interesting to note, that you are 7-2 as Axis, and 2-2 as Allies
Also, you have defeated some stronger opponents as Axis, but not as Allies
At a glance, I think you, like probably pretty much all of us, are bidding too low

you are probably correct….it’s difficult for me to let someone get the allies at +20…I guess I should “let it go”.

[gamerman01]

Yes  :-) I think you are speaking for all of us
As big as this game is, 20-25 is really not that huge.  We’re just so used to smaller maps and less units

[variance]

@calvinhobbesliker:

Is there any good way to place a bid of around 20-25 to hinder Japan significantly? From what I’ve seen, most bids are used against Italy and maybe Germany.

What would happen if you bought a pair of Russian fighters in Moscow and Stalingrad, plus an inf for yunnan for $23, and then you reinforce the 5 Yunnan infantry with 3 fighters and 1 tac?

[gamerman01]

That can be very effective, but it’s a big gamble.  You’re putting the whole Russian airforce and Allied bid on one battle on J1, that Japan just might take.  They can retreat if round 1 doesn’t go well, but if the battle does go well, you’re worse off than before

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Gamerman01:

That can be very effective, but it’s a big gamble.  You’re putting the whole Russian airforce and Allied bid on one battle on J1, that Japan just might take.  They can retreat if round 1 doesn’t go well, but if the battle does go well, you’re worse off than before

Japan can only bring in 1 ftr, 1 tac, 2 bombers in addition to its 4 land units, right? That gives only a 16% chance of winning…

[666]

@Gamerman01:

Yes  :-) I think you are speaking for all of us
As big as this game is, 20-25 is really not that huge.  We’re just so used to smaller maps and less units

I wonder if it makes sense for us to limit bid placements to just one territory. If the axis advantage is so large and huge bid amounts are required to balance the game why not eliminate this bid placement restriction that we have imposed? Don’t get me wrong I love adding many units onto the game board just a thought I had……

[gamerman01]

I get about 21%
OK, you’re right, I’m thinking of bids less than 23 still

Still, it’s a sacrifice to move the whole allied bid and Russian airforce minus 1 to Yunnan on R1.  Even if you bring them back right away, they can’t get back to Moscow in 1 turn.  Japan pounds Hunnan instead, and you can’t take it back, like normally you might have a shot, so you take a chance away from Japan to get diced, spreading between Hunan and Yunnan.

It’s not a bad idea, but I don’t think it’s revolutionary either.  Russia needs her forces against Germany

[gamerman01]

@JWW:

@Gamerman01:

Yes  :-) I think you are speaking for all of us
As big as this game is, 20-25 is really not that huge.  We’re just so used to smaller maps and less units

I wonder if it makes sense for us to limit bid placements to just one territory. If the axis advantage is so large and huge bid amounts are required to balance the game why not eliminate this bid placement restriction that we have imposed? Don’t get me wrong I love adding many units onto the game board just a thought I had……

That’s a good thought at first, but think about the possibilities and I’ll let you come to your own conclusions…  It’s pretty volatile…

If you can get an opponent to agree to that, there’s nothing stopping you.  I wouldn’t want my opponent adding very many infantry to France, though, and it kinda sucks to make the game even more ahistorical than it already is…  Massive French resistance in Paris?  Ugh

[gamerman01]

Not sure what the problem is with a “big” number for an Allied bid.  If both players are happy with the side they have, then mission accomplished.

[gamerman01]

@Gamerman01:

I get about 21%
OK, you’re right, I’m thinking of bids less than 23 still

Still, it’s a sacrifice to move the whole allied bid and Russian airforce minus 1 to Yunnan on R1.  Even if you bring them back right away, they can’t get back to Moscow in 1 turn.  Japan pounds Hunnan instead, and you can’t take it back, like normally you might have a shot, so you take a chance away from Japan to get diced, spreading between Hunan and Yunnan.

It’s not a bad idea, but I don’t think it’s revolutionary either.  Russia needs her forces against Germany

So you’re taking nothing in the Europe board?  That didn’t work so well in my league semi-final game.  A sub in 98 and maybe something in 91 and maybe something in North Africa are extremely efficient bids.  Fighter bids, not so much.  It’s better to use bids on infantry and subs, in my opinion

[variance]

So Japan doesn’t get Yunnan and China can stack Szechwan.  Russian planes go back to motherland long before Germans are at the gates.  Meanwhile Japan is kind of buggered in China so USA can devote more to Atlantic side early on to put Germany on the defense.

[666]

@Gamerman01:

Not sure what the problem is with a “big” number for an Allied bid.� If both players are happy with the side they have, then mission accomplished.

there isn’t a problem and I agree w/your assessment. It just seems like the bid restrictions rules were implemented before we had, perhaps I should speak for myself, a real grasp at how unbalanced the game was….Contemplating this further, if we knew that the allies required a major (?) 20+ IPC injection onto the board to balance things, would we then choose to hamper the allies further w/a bid placement restriction?

Perhaps a 2-3 inf placement in YUN or Alex wouldn’t be an easier balance mechanism than scattering 20+ IPC’s worth of material around?

Even w/the 20+ restricted bid, we find ourselves rushing Russian troops into China, we also rush forces to EGY and try to stack USA air, French and even Russian troops & air! Aussie fighters to Moscow, Russian mech’s to Ethiopia! It’s kind of crazy and it is so far removed from the reality of the actual conflict…sorry, I can tell that I am really rambling now… :lol:

Anyways, I’m just thinking out loud, doesn’t matter to me one way or the other…I’ll go back to getting diced in my games.  :-D Thanks for the soapbox.

[gamerman01]

You bet - I really wish we’d hear more from players like you’re sharing with us now

I don’t think the Russians need to bolster China, except maybe with 12-18 of the starting Siberians.
I don’t think Egypt is half as important as most players think.  I concede Egypt whether I’m Axis or Allies, pretty much every single game.  My opponent always wants it worse than I do.

I think 20 bid being big is old thinking.  TUV is 1600-2000.  Larry cut back how many aircraft from Japan from 1st edition?  The rules changes that have taken place since first edition have had the effect of a 100+ bid toward the Axis, at LEAST.  Most players I think love scattering units around the board - the 1 unit restriction allows for a lot more creativity and varied setups than if players were always dumping 3-4 infantry on Yunnan or something.

The bidding guidelines in the league rules are only that - guidelines.  If you don’t like the restriction, I’m sure you will be able to convince most opponents to disregard that guideline and you can stack units with smaller bids.

[gamerman01]

@Gamerman01:

I think 20 bid being big is old thinking.

20 bid was HUGE in original A&A, and quite big in Revised or AA50.  Now it’s not.

[DizzKneeLand33]

I still contend that starting the game with France would almost balance out the entire imbalance….

Germany should at least have one other thing to worry about then a simple crush of Paris (no 98% battles needed, do the 100% one).  Starting the game with a French turn (even as a “non-aggression” turn, meaning they can’t attack turn one – as many rules as this game has, that little addition wouldn’t be hard to remember) would solve lots of problems.  Otherwise, sometimes I contemplate if 30 is enough of a bid with one unit per territory, but 12 may be overpowered if 4 inf can go in the same place.