Actually, will stick with it as-is, sorry about the delay.
2015 League General Discussion Thread
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This is one of those rules I only remember because I was so dang surprised when I first came across it.
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Reason is, as Krieghund and Wheatbeer explained:
You ignore the sub in the combat movement phase, so it is then out of the picture. Kamikaze attack happens in the conduct combat phase. It doesn’t bring the ignored sub back into combat
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ok thank you guys for the clarification on this rule. it makes sense.
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Can empty transports that participated in combat load in the non-combat phase?
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Actually the situation is more complex than that. I can’t type much right now but as soon as I get the chance I’ll describe unless Adam can do
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i might be missing something but I think the simple answer is “no”.
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I can answer the question after dominion gives us his perspective
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Germany has tps in 110 & 112, U.S. drops dd in both zones (from Norway fac) to prevent them from loading for combat. Ok I get that rule. So to prevent this from happening yet again, and to keep them safe with my navy, I (Germany) moved them into 112 during cm along with my warships, killed the dd, and then during ncm, I loaded up the tps.
I don’t see how this is an issue, since it’s the land units that are moving during their ncm. I get that the tps can’t move, but it shouldn’t prevent the land units from moving (in this case onto the tps).
If I’m wrong on this, then I have to say my tps investment was totally worthless. It’d be an endless loop of US dropping a dd to thwart amphibs, unless I moved navy deeper inside Baltic Sea, which would put it at a seriously inferior position (and easily locked in).
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You’re right that you have to move the transport from 110 during the combat movement phase in order to avoid combat with the destroyer in 110. You moved it to 112, where it is participating in combat with the warships against the destroyer in 112.
Unfortunately for you, you canNOT load a transport after it has participated in combat. It can’t do ANYTHING after that, including load in noncom. I will find chapter and verse for you now… hang on
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Top paragraph of page 16 says a transport must stop when encountering hostile surface warships and conduct combat
Page 22, toward the end, says that transports…can load cargo…unless they unloaded, moved, offloaded, or were involved in combat during the combat move or conduct combat phase
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You have discovered one of the reasons why an Allied complex in Norway is nasty
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If that really is the case, then I honestly don’t want anything to do with A&A anymore. To me that’s a truly ridiculous loophole of a rule that completely turns me off from the game. It completely renders Germany helpless to do anything with those tps without having to accept a totally inferior position, not to mention loss of crucial time.
I have always played it where loading can happen in such a case, as tripleA in this case has more sense the “official” rules.
If it’s gonna be that way, I’m just gonna resign all my games and go find a game without such a game-breaking flaw. Another stupid rule where a lone dd can thwart entire amphib designs. Just dumb.
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Take a deep breath and a day or two off
Like some of the other rules, like what you can do when you send a sub into a fleet with destroyers in non-com, it does go both ways and there are often ways to deal with it.
Maybe you need to work on taking Norway back first. Just trying to help
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Maybe a better idea is simply to houserule the things you don’t like - most opponents would probably agree to houserule this one to play with you.
Don’t forget you don’t have to play by the rulebook in league play - just get your opponent to agree to it - you could even get opponents to agree to this mid-game quite possibly.
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thank you gamer, I do appreciate the clarification on this rule, and the encouragement to work around it.
unfortunately, it’s sort of a chicken and egg situation: i need to be able to load my tps in order to take Norway, but i can’t do that with this rule. if i try a different approach (i.e., go deeper into the pocket to first land in finland, etc.), it’d just be too significant of a delay and loss of position …it’s just not feasible. it’s stupid really.
there are enough little silly rules here and there that get me upset now and then, but I’m usually able to get over them. this one however really takes the cake. it’s bad enough that dropping a dd can prevent an amphib to begin with, but i’m more open to accepting this, and i can see how it can be a great delay tactic. but to be able to do this over and over again so long as the tps remain in those zones is aweful. i have to say it’s highest on my deal-breaking rules.
later this evening when i have some time, i will post my resignation of all my current games and take a break from A&A for some time.
only way i’ll consider playing again is without this rule where loading is also blocked. but i’m not gonna ask my opponents for this mod while in the middle of the game. it’s something that should be agreed upon before starting a game.
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thank you gamer, I do appreciate the clarification on this rule, and the encouragement to work around it.
unfortunately, it’s sort of a chicken and egg situation: i need to be able to load my tps in order to take Norway, but i can’t do that with this rule. if i try a different approach (i.e., go deeper into the pocket to first land in finland, etc.), it’d just be too significant of a delay and loss of position …it’s just not feasible. it’s stupid really.
there are enough little silly rules here and there that get me upset now and then, but I’m usually able to get over them. this one however really takes the cake. it’s bad enough that dropping a dd can prevent an amphib to begin with, but i’m more open to accepting this, and i can see how it can be a great delay tactic. but to be able to do this over and over again so long as the tps remain in those zones is aweful. i have to say it’s highest on my deal-breaking rules.
later this evening when i have some time, i will post my resignation of all my current games and take a break from A&A for some time.
only way i’ll consider playing again is without this rule where loading is also blocked. but i’m not gonna ask my opponents for this mod while in the middle of the game. it’s something that should be agreed upon before starting a game.
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Sure, and any time - I understand there are probably various other factors that go into your wanting to take a break
You’ve played a lot of games this year!
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no, i’m not burned out. this time it’s not the case as it was last time. i’m still very eager to play and LOVE the game, but not with such a rule. it just ruins the experience for me.
in my game with adam, i ended up buying 4 tps as a surprise move to exploit a vulnerable atlantic after he left it and sailed deep into the med to thwart japanese aggression in africa. it’s a perfectly good counter-strategy, but such a rule allows for a VERY CHEAP stop to the plans. a good game shouldn’t allow cheap moves like that. not the fault of my opponent of course, as he’s top notch and leveraging the rules to max his advantage. just really upset and sad that the rule makers would know of such a loophole and not put out a fix.
Sure, and any time - I understand there are probably various other factors that go into your wanting to take a break
You’ve played a lot of games this year!
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Take a deep breath and a day or two off
Like some of the other rules, like what you can do when you send a sub into a fleet with destroyers in non-com, it does go both ways and there are often ways to deal with it.
Maybe you need to work on taking Norway back first. Just trying to help
Wait, subs can move into enemy fleets with destroyers in noncombat?
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Honestly I wasn’t sure about the rule, which is why I brought my fleet back around just in time to have the possibility of sacrificing loaded tps to protect UK. If I knew about the rule I would definitely have told you when you bought fleet that it would be pretty much impossible to use it against UK and that it would take a while to be able to threaten Norway with it. I’ll be fine with continuing this game allowing the loading, but I don’t see how you can block this loophole unless transports are considered like air units (can move in both phases), and that might open up many other problems.
The possibilities allowed by the Norway fac just makes Norway a bit more valuable. I personally don’t think this loophole is a big deal if both players know about it. And the blocking isn’t cheap, it’s 16 a turn and can go up to 24 if Germany has units in Normandy or Holland.
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