2015 League General Discussion Thread

[Adam514]

Rules question:

1. Can unprotected transports stay in a sea zone with an enemy sub during the combat phase of the nation that owns the transports?

2. Would the presence of ships in the sea zone with the enemy sub allied to the transports change the answer to question 1?

Link to game if unclear: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35602.240

[axis-dominion]

@Adam514:

Rules question:

1. Can unprotected transports stay in a sea zone with an enemy sub during the combat phase of the nation that owns the transports?

2. Would the presence of ships in the sea zone with the enemy sub allied to the transports change the answer to question 1?

Link to game if unclear: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35602.240

subs do not make a sea zone hostile, which therefore means the zone is still friendly

From the Europe rulebook, pg. 8:

sea Zones
Sea zones are either friendly or hostile. Friendly sea zones contain no surface warships (this doesn’t include submarines and transports) belonging to a power with which you are at war. Hostile sea zones contain surface warships belonging to a power with which you are at war. (The presence of a surface warship
belonging to an enemy power with which you are not yet at war doesn’t make a sea
zone hostile.)
Note: The Caspian Sea (surrounded by Caucasus, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Eastern Persia, Persia, and Northwest Persia) is considered to be a sea zone, even though it does not have a number.

[axis-dominion]

more on pg. 14:

If you are sharing a sea zone with surface warships (not submarines and/or transports) belonging to a power with which you are at war, this situation requires you to do one of the following:
• Remain in the sea zone and conduct combat,
• Leave the sea zone, load units if desired, and conduct
combat elsewhere,
• Leave the sea zone, load units, and return to the same
sea zone to conduct combat (you can’t load units while
in a hostile sea zone), or
• Leave the sea zone and conduct no combat.
Once these sea units have moved and/or participated in combat, they can’t move or participate in the Noncombat Move phase of the turn.

[Adam514]

@axis-dominion:

@Adam514:

Rules question:

1. Can unprotected transports stay in a sea zone with an enemy sub during the combat phase of the nation that owns the transports?

2. Would the presence of ships in the sea zone with the enemy sub allied to the transports change the answer to question 1?

Link to game if unclear: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35602.240

subs do not make a sea zone hostile, which therefore means the zone is still friendly

From the Europe rulebook, pg. 8:

sea Zones
Sea zones are either friendly or hostile. Friendly sea zones contain no surface warships (this doesn�t include submarines and transports) belonging to a power with which you are at war. Hostile sea zones contain surface warships belonging to a power with which you are at war. (The presence of a surface warship
belonging to an enemy power with which you are not yet at war doesn�t make a sea
zone hostile.)
Note: The Caspian Sea (surrounded by Caucasus, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Eastern Persia, Persia, and Northwest Persia) is considered to be a sea zone, even though it does not have a number.

I know about subs not making a sea zone hostile, but following the same logic why would transports without a warship escort be unable to unload troops in a sea zone with an enemy sub present?

[axis-dominion]

there is one exception to all this, which is stated on pg. 16:

A transport that is part of an amphibious assault must end its movement in a friendly sea zone (or one that could become friendly as result of sea combat) from which it can conduct the assault. However, a transport
is not allowed to offload land units for an amphibious assault in a sea zone containing 1 or more ignored enemy submarines unless at least 1 warship belonging to the attacking power is also present in the sea zone at the end of the Combat Move phase.

[gamerman01]

@Adam514:

1. Can unprotected transports stay in a sea zone with an enemy sub during the combat phase of the nation that owns the transports?

Yes, the subs can be ignored.  Enemy subs can only stop an unescorted transport attempting an amphibious assault from the zone the sub(s) is in (no dice rolled - unescorted transport is simply unable to make the amphibious assault)

2. Would the presence of ships in the sea zone with the enemy sub allied to the transports change the answer to question 1?

No, it doesn’t change the answer, because the answer to question 1 is already yes, the unprotected transports can stay in the zone without escort

[gamerman01]

So dominion is telling you the same thing - I just did it without citing rulebook pages.

[axis-dominion]

on pg. 13 of rulebook explicitly states that the transport not able to do an amphib without warship escort is an exception:

Enemy submarines and/or transports do not block any
of your units’ movement, nor do they prevent loading
or offloading in that sea zone (with one exception; see “Special Combat Movement: Transports,” page 16).

[Adam514]

Thanks axis-dominion and Gamerman, I must say I’m surprised about it. Also, I’m surprised Triple A provides a warning about a false rule (warns that the transports that stay in the sea zone with the sub will be destroyed).

[gamerman01]

Triple A has a lot of differences with the rule book, as you will see if you look in Help -> Game Notes

[nerquen]

Hi, are facilities (industrial complexes and bases) considered as units for purposes of default bidding rules? So could for example US bid for units on Midway? Or could UK bid a minor factory to Egypt or Gibraltar?

[Zhukov44]

Funny that hasn’t come up yet Nerquen, as the IC in egy might be worth a try.  I dunno if there’s any precedent.  I guess we’ll have to decide.  I’m fine with it.

[calvinhobbesliker]

I’ve seen bids of ICs in Egypt, but those may have been agreed to beforehand.

[calvinhobbesliker]

Also, I would say an IC in Gibraltar is not allowed because it’s not worth 2 IPCs.

[gamerman01]

Right, the bid rules just say “units” and do not prohibit facilities.

Note that this year’s rules do specify that there is already a unit there.  There is an airbase on Midway and a naval base on Gibraltar, so another unit may be added to them.  Note that the default league bidding rules are for a limit of 1 unit added per territory/sea zone.  Again, a reminder that these are default league rules and may be altered by agreement of both players.  The purpose of the league bid rules is to give a starting, default point, and should be used if one player does not agree to a change proposed by his opponent.

[gamerman01]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsW9MlYu31g

[gamerman01]

@Gamerman01:

There is an airbase on Midway and a naval base on Gibraltar, so another unit may be added to them.

There is also a fighter on Gib IIRC.  Nothing special about a base being there - my point is that a base is a unit so a base being on Midway or Wake, for example, qualify them for a bid unit according to default league rules.

[nerquen]

@Gamerman01:

@Gamerman01:

There is an airbase on Midway and a naval base on Gibraltar, so another unit may be added to them.

There is also a fighter on Gib IIRC.  Nothing special about a base being there - my point is that a base is a unit so a base being on Midway or Wake, for example, qualify them for a bid unit according to default league rules.

Ok, thanks Gamrman01. What about the restrictions for IC’s? Can one place a bid IC on an island or a territory with PU value less than 2?

[gamerman01]

No, it’s against the rulebook to put an IC on an island or a territory that isn’t worth 2 or more

[rgp44]

Rules question for Gamer or whoever else wants to handle it.  Situation is this: Japan and US both have huge fleets separated by a blocking space around Australia.  Japan has some mechanized ground units in Australia that can attack NSW by moving 2 spaces, the planes from the Japanese fleet can only attack NSW if they land in the sz protected by the US (no other possible landing space is available).  With the fleet blocked the Japanese have no chance of clearing that sz.  Is Japan allowed to send its planes against NSW while sending a single plane against the US fleet to technically give battle a create a claim of somehow being able to clear the zone for the Japan CVs to catch the planes in noncom (assume they clear the blocking space as well)?