2015 League General Discussion Thread

[JuanSpain]

Thank you both, I expected that answer but it is always good checking with you. I also think that Russia should not have met the extra 5 IPC.

[bonusbent]

@Gamerman01:

You can’t invade a land territory without being at war with the territory owner and each owner of units there.  You can do that at sea, but not land.

So in your situation, Russia cannot attack a territory with German units in it without declaring war on Germany.  You can’t “eliminate just the Italians”, and you can never have Russian troops in the same territory as Germans after the combat phase  :lol:

I agree with Gamerman01 and bmnielsen, however, the diplomacy is not exactly logical.

If London is occupied by Germany Russia is allowed to declare war on Germany.

But if a territory originally owned by Russia is controlled by Italy, and Germany - while still at peace with Russia - sends units into that territory Russia is not allowed to act upon it? Pfff…

Either Germany should be forced to declare war on Russia before sending units into that Italian controlled territory or Russia should be allowed to declare war on Germany(if the German units still remain in that territory at the beginning of Russia´s turn).

[gamerman01]

Dude, Russia can declare war on Germany no matter what Germany does, once Italy is at war with Russia.  Russia can also declare on Italy if Russia is at war with Germany.

As far as a +5, Russia gets +5 if at war with either Euro-Axis, there is no German (or Italian) sub in 125, no Allies in Russia originals, and Russia controls Arch.

[bonusbent]

lol… alright  :roll:

[bonusbent]

I just recall playing a game recently with no option to DOW with Russia

[barney]

@Gamerman01:

and you can never have Russian troops in the same territory as Germans after the combat phase  :lol:

They probably wouldn’t get along very well anyways :)

[Karl7]

OK… will someone please tell me how to read the marti results?

I know that having played over 200 games, you’d think I’d know how.  But as far as I can tell there is no continuity between the results and the order of the units the marti email designates.

to wit:

XPAD2 Game 21 Dicer’s Creed vs Team Garl:Germans roll dice for 6 bombers, 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers in 91 Sea Zone, round 2

Your dice are: 4,5,5,5,5,3,1,5,4,1
Have a nice day.

You attribute the order of units to the dice going right from left, it would seem to say the roller got 5 hits.

You do it from the left, it would say you got 5 hits.

But in reality the roller only got 4.

:oops: :-P

[Adam514]

It seems to be in order of power (fighters are the first 2 die in this case, etc).

[Karl7]

@Adam514:

It seems to be in order of power (fighters are the first 2 die in this case, etc).

AH, no, only the bombers hit.

[axis-dominion]

@Karl7:

OK… will someone please tell me how to read the marti results?

I know that having played over 200 games, you’d think I’d know how.  But as far as I can tell there is no continuity between the results and the order of the units the marti email designates.

to wit:

XPAD2 Game 21 Dicer’s Creed vs Team Garl:Germans roll dice for 6 bombers, 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers in 91 Sea Zone, round 2

Yes only 4. Always go from weakest to strongest, left to right. First 3 dice are ftrs, next 3 tacs, last 3 bombers.

Your dice are: 4,5,5,5,5,3,1,5,4,1
Have a nice day.

You attribute the order of units to the dice going right from left, it would seem to say the roller got 5 hits.

You do it from the left, it would say you got 5 hits.

But in reality the roller only got 4.

:oops: :-P

[axis-dominion]

Yes only 4. Always go from weakest to strongest, left to right. First 3 dice are ftrs, next 3 tacs, last 3 bombers.

[Karl7]

@axis-dominion:

Yes only 4. Always go from weakest to strongest, left to right. First 3 dice are ftrs, next 3 tacs, last 3 bombers.

Thanks… Jesus!

[axis-dominion]

Yes, it comes in handy to know how to read them. Here’s another example so you can practice reading some more:

Germans roll dice for 60 bombers, 5 fighters and 5 tactical_bombers in 97 Sea Zone, round 2

Your dice are: 3,4,1,2,3,6,6,3,2,3,4,5,3,6,1,3,4,1,2,3,6,6,3,2,3,4,5,3,6,1,3,4,1,2,3,6,6,3,2,3,4,5,3,6,1,3,4,1,2,3,6,6,3,2,3,4,5,3,6,1

Have a nice day.

…

@Karl7:

@axis-dominion:

Yes only 4. Always go from weakest to strongest, left to right. First 3 dice are ftrs, next 3 tacs, last 3 bombers.

Thanks… Jesus!

[axis-dominion]

ok, new house rule in effect for any league game i play going forward:

*fighter planes in a territory with a major factory and airbase will intercept at 2
*escorting fighters also attack at 2 in this particular SBR

cyanight is proving without any doubt how inadequate the current intercepting rules are…he’ll go in with like 10 total against say 13 or 15 of my interceptors and still come out ahead, way ahead…we’ll each kill off a plane or two, and then he’ll demolish my economy…how realistic is that?? with overwhelming air defense, how can bombers be so damn effective, and WW2 bombers at that? no way

probably more needs to be done, but i wanna start out with a small change and then go from there.

[DizzKneeLand33]

@axis-dominion:

ok, new house rule in effect for any league game i play going forward:

*fighter planes in a territory with a major factory and airbase will intercept at 2
*escorting fighters also attack at 2 in this particular SBR

cyanight is proving without any doubt how inadequate the current intercepting rules are…he’ll go in with like 10 total against say 13 or 15 of my interceptors and still come out ahead, way ahead…we’ll each kill off a plane or two, and then he’ll demolish my economy…how realistic is that?? with overwhelming air defense, how can bombers be so damn effective, and WW2 bombers at that? no way

probably more needs to be done, but i wanna start out with a small change and then go from there.

Well, geesh, are we now allowed to rewrite all of the rules for league games?  If that’s the case, instead of doing that, I’d rather just play someone an AA50 game for league – any takers?  ;)

axis-dominion, instead of trying to eliminate a potentially overpowered strategy, you should just instead come over to the dark side and play our World At War tournament starting May 1…  8-)

[axis-dominion]

well, then after playing a few dozen games, i’ll make up some house rules for that as well  :lol:

but i think the house rule is good not just for the dark skies strat. i think it just makes more sense. i believe most players will agree something needs to be done to help against mass bombers, and that intercepting as it is now is too weak and unreal.

@DizzKneeLand33:

@axis-dominion:

ok, new house rule in effect for any league game i play going forward:

*fighter planes in a territory with a major factory and airbase will intercept at 2
*escorting fighters also attack at 2 in this particular SBR

cyanight is proving without any doubt how inadequate the current intercepting rules are…he’ll go in with like 10 total against say 13 or 15 of my interceptors and still come out ahead, way ahead…we’ll each kill off a plane or two, and then he’ll demolish my economy…how realistic is that?? with overwhelming air defense, how can bombers be so damn effective, and WW2 bombers at that? no way

probably more needs to be done, but i wanna start out with a small change and then go from there.

Well, geesh, are we now allowed to rewrite all of the rules for league games?  If that’s the case, instead of doing that, I’d rather just play someone an AA50 game for league – any takers?  ;)

axis-dominion, instead of trying to eliminate a potentially overpowered strategy, you should just instead come over to the dark side and play our World At War tournament starting May 1…  8-)

[boldfresh]

@axis-dominion:

well, then after playing a few dozen games, i’ll make up some house rules for that as well  :lol:

but i think the house rule is good not just for the dark skies strat. i think it just makes more sense. i believe most players will agree something needs to be done to help against mass bombers, and that intercepting as it is now is too weak and unreal.

@DizzKneeLand33:

@axis-dominion:

ok, new house rule in effect for any league game i play going forward:

*fighter planes in a territory with a major factory and airbase will intercept at 2
*escorting fighters also attack at 2 in this particular SBR

cyanight is proving without any doubt how inadequate the current intercepting rules are…he’ll go in with like 10 total against say 13 or 15 of my interceptors and still come out ahead, way ahead…we’ll each kill off a plane or two, and then he’ll demolish my economy…how realistic is that?? with overwhelming air defense, how can bombers be so damn effective, and WW2 bombers at that? no way

probably more needs to be done, but i wanna start out with a small change and then go from there.

Well, geesh, are we now allowed to rewrite all of the rules for league games?  If that’s the case, instead of doing that, I’d rather just play someone an AA50 game for league – any takers?  ;)

axis-dominion, instead of trying to eliminate a potentially overpowered strategy, you should just instead come over to the dark side and play our World At War tournament starting May 1…  8-)

axis, mass bombers are not a problem.  they are just a problem against the way you are playing.  rather than change the game, why not change your strategy?

[axis-dominion]

judging by all the discussions going on by MANY players, and also, by the amazing UNDEFEATED record of bmnielsen and dizzy in using this strategy, i think i’m not the only one who is struggling against it. also, this discussion keeps coming up, and for good reason: NO ONE has an answer yet. you claim you have one, as others have too, but so far nothing has actually materialized. i’m really curious how adam will do against bmn.

pretty much everyone i’ve talked to agrees that planes in general are overpowered, bomber range and power is unrealistic and especially when grouped together in stacks of 20 or 30, and SBR vs interceptor rules are problematic.

i do strongly believe that a simple change like the one i am requiring will help improve the game. ultimately, some game experience with the house rule will be the judge.

@Boldfresh:

@axis-dominion:

well, then after playing a few dozen games, i’ll make up some house rules for that as well  :lol:

but i think the house rule is good not just for the dark skies strat. i think it just makes more sense. i believe most players will agree something needs to be done to help against mass bombers, and that intercepting as it is now is too weak and unreal.

@DizzKneeLand33:

@axis-dominion:

ok, new house rule in effect for any league game i play going forward:

*fighter planes in a territory with a major factory and airbase will intercept at 2
*escorting fighters also attack at 2 in this particular SBR

cyanight is proving without any doubt how inadequate the current intercepting rules are…he’ll go in with like 10 total against say 13 or 15 of my interceptors and still come out ahead, way ahead…we’ll each kill off a plane or two, and then he’ll demolish my economy…how realistic is that?? with overwhelming air defense, how can bombers be so damn effective, and WW2 bombers at that? no way

probably more needs to be done, but i wanna start out with a small change and then go from there.

Well, geesh, are we now allowed to rewrite all of the rules for league games?  If that’s the case, instead of doing that, I’d rather just play someone an AA50 game for league – any takers?  ;)

axis-dominion, instead of trying to eliminate a potentially overpowered strategy, you should just instead come over to the dark side and play our World At War tournament starting May 1…  8-)

axis, mass bombers are not a problem.  they are just a problem against the way you are playing.  rather than change the game, why not change your strategy?

[Soulblighter]

@axis-dominion:

judging by all the discussions going on by MANY players, and also, by the amazing UNDEFEATED record of bmnielsen and dizzy in using this strategy, i think i’m not the only one who is struggling against it. also, this discussion keeps coming up, and for good reason: NO ONE has an answer yet. you claim you have one, as others have too, but so far nothing has actually materialized. i’m really curious how adam will do against bmn.

pretty much everyone i’ve talked to agrees that planes in general are overpowered, bomber range and power is unrealistic and especially when grouped together in stacks of 20 or 30, and SBR vs interceptor rules are problematic.

i do strongly believe that a simple change like the one i am requiring will help improve the game. ultimately, some game experience with the house rule will be the judge.

@Boldfresh:

@axis-dominion:

well, then after playing a few dozen games, i’ll make up some house rules for that as well  :lol:

but i think the house rule is good not just for the dark skies strat. i think it just makes more sense. i believe most players will agree something needs to be done to help against mass bombers, and that intercepting as it is now is too weak and unreal.

@DizzKneeLand33:

@axis-dominion:

ok, new house rule in effect for any league game i play going forward:

*fighter planes in a territory with a major factory and airbase will intercept at 2
*escorting fighters also attack at 2 in this particular SBR

cyanight is proving without any doubt how inadequate the current intercepting rules are…he’ll go in with like 10 total against say 13 or 15 of my interceptors and still come out ahead, way ahead…we’ll each kill off a plane or two, and then he’ll demolish my economy…how realistic is that?? with overwhelming air defense, how can bombers be so damn effective, and WW2 bombers at that? no way

probably more needs to be done, but i wanna start out with a small change and then go from there.

Well, geesh, are we now allowed to rewrite all of the rules for league games?  If that’s the case, instead of doing that, I’d rather just play someone an AA50 game for league – any takers?  ;)

axis-dominion, instead of trying to eliminate a potentially overpowered strategy, you should just instead come over to the dark side and play our World At War tournament starting May 1…  8-)

axis, mass bombers are not a problem.  they are just a problem against the way you are playing.  rather than change the game, why not change your strategy?

You can try a different bid. A bid of 2 Russian fighters for example. One in moscow and one in Volgorad and then send all 4 planes to Yunnan. Japan could still attack, but it would cost them dearly. Which in turn allows the Chinese to actually put up a fight against the Japanese and making life easier for the allies and thus give you a better chance against the Germans. Ideally you would also bid a Chinese infantry or artillery in Yunnan as well.

Another good bid would be the mandatory submarine for the UK in Z98 and then an infantry in Yunnan and another Russian fighter in Moscow. It would provide more all round coverage. I am not saying it will work. Try out and see what works for you.

[gamerman01]

@axis-dominion:

pretty much everyone i’ve talked to agrees that planes in general are overpowered

This.  I mean, think about the original game.
Bombers cost 15.  Fighters cost 12.

Those costs would probably work well in G40.  Because of the much, much bigger map, the disparity between a movement of 1 for infantry and a movement of 5 for fighters and 7 for bombers is monstrous.  But infantry still cost 3, and fighters and bombers are actually CHEAPER than they were in the original, though they are far more important than in the original, with air base capabilities and increased bombing damage.

I think they were made cheaper along with boats, to help balance them with boats, but now on land you have tanks being more expensive than ever, and infantry units still at 3.  So whereas fighters used to be a multiple of 4 and bombers a multiple of 5 times the cost of an infantry, it is now only 3.33 and 4, even as fighter and bomber capabilities have been increased (airbases)