What would you change?

[balungaloaf]

i’m not a fan of that turn order, we used that when we started, but we have evolved into trying to make the game as real as possible.  find the enhanced realism booklet that the maker of the game wrote to help with situations that dont make any realistic sense.  I would type it all but that would probably take forever, so i will do it in installments.

[A Former User]

Ive never tried that turn order, Im not a huge fan of changing rules so I’ll propably never try it out, unless its included in LHTR offcourse  :-P

But I agree that the placement of the tranny seems a bit silly, but think about how fast Japan would be moving if that tranny was protected from the start, 2 more inf on the mainland in the first turn, which are able to go to india, means a lot.
So if anything should be changed the transport should be moved to the shores of Japan or something, I think that would be a more balanced change and again call for less bids or maybe none at all.

-Daniel

[Guest]

Germany before Russia?

THAT would be some serious hell for the Russians…

In fact, Moscow falling on G1 would be a rather likely results… with the West Russia forces, the Ukraine ARM. amd the Ukraine, Balkan and Eastern FIGs plus the Germany bomber.
That battle is an 89.6% German win…

I call that a game imbalancer…

[Guest]

Well, there IS a US Destroyer in the Pacific… it just starts out “on patrol” at the Panama Canal.

If we are going to be talking “should be’s” then where oh where is the Bismark?  Yes, the “Germans” have the Vichy French fleet, and thus the BB in the Med, but where is the Bismark, Graf Spee, etc.?  Surely they are not represented by one lonely DST in the Baltic…

I also have a few issues with the UK Indian Ocean fleets.  A CARRIER off India?  Nope, all of their AF in that area was land based.

New Guinea should be split, with the southern edge being British and have an INF and a FIG there.  There should be no AC off India, but add a DST off South New Guinea.

And if you are going to add a UK sub somewhere in the Atlantic, then you need to account for the South Atlantic U-Boats with an additional German sub somewhere in SZ11, 12, 16 or 17.

[mateooo]

how bout one sub in the Atlantic, and all the other subs hiding out in the baltic

werent the uboats the terror of the atlantic? and yet they have to hide out with the destroer and transports

one time for fun, with the original AA, we played where if a plane attacked a sub without any attacking boats, the plane had a -2 to hit (bomb hit with 2, figther with a 1.  It was actually very fun, and made subs useful to be sent out on their own to try to pick off lone ships.

gave them a littlot of longevity against planes, which I think is a major flaw in the game (how easy it is for planes to kill subs).  In real life, fighters didnt go by themselves to hunt subs, they required coordination with destroyers who would scout them out.

just my two cents.

mateo

[Guest]

You know, that sounds like a really great House Rule mateooo

[mojo]

i think thats a pretty good rule change. i love some of the changes from classic to revised.  cheaper figs, build them on ac.  limits on builds and sbr are a good change too. i’ll have to think about what i’d change now.  the game is more even in revised than classic was.

[Axel Allie]

A while ago, I saw this great house rule about subs:

When figs and/or bombers attack subs?
the subs can roll a die for submerging before being attacked!
on a 1 or a 2 (their defense score by the way :-P) they submerge before figs and/or bombers roll for attacking…
they can still submerge after being attacked for one round and after failing their first (and extra) possibility to submerge.

[Octopus]

here is a bit of history for you to answer some questions of realism.

The Graf Spee was scuttled just over 3 months into WWII (December 1939), the Bismarck was sunk in May of 1941, which is about 9 months prior to where Axis and Allies begins.  You could ask “where is the Tirpiz?”  That would put a German Battleship in the Baltic.

The German navy in the Mediterranean is representing the Italian Navy.  Don’t laugh, they were actually respectable and did well.  The battleship represents the Roma.

The lack of German U-Boats could be represented by the extremely limited availability of U-Boats able to avoid the sneaky new device the turned the Atlantic War in favor of the Allies: Sonar.

On the outbreak of WWII, there were only 12 U-boats deployed for combat.  At one point in 1941, there were only 2 U-boats in the ocean.

The Germans spent too many resources building surface vessals when they should have focussed on submersibles, but that was decided well before the war started.

[Guest]

Only addition I would make yo your analysis is that the Med Fleet also includes the Vichy French fleet…

[mateooo]

wasnt the French fleet sunk by the Brits?
dont remember the name of the battle, but it really pissed off the french
mateo

[General_D.Fox]

I think the battle, IIRC, was at Mers-el-Kabir.  I think. :oops:

[Axel Allie]

WOW,

I didn’t know you guys were interested that much in European history!
or is it only WWII?
nevertheless: I’m from Europe myself, and I never knew all this info!!!
:-o :-o :-o :-o

[mateooo]

yeah, well, its been a long time since the US has been fought a war to be proud of, so we all like to focus on WWII.
Vietnam? Iraq? sorry, sir, dont know what your talkin about.

mateooo

[General_D.Fox]

:-P  :-D hehehe, I’m actually from Canada, but I’m a history buff, especially about the two world wars, so I kinda remember that stuff.

[mateooo]

i question whether there has ever been such a clear cut war of "not evil " versus “more evil.” (dont want to condemn all Germans, Italians, and Japanese, i am directing this comment toward the leaders… and in exchange, I dont want to be blamed for George Bush’s actions. Also hard to lump Stalin into the good.

Though the war of 1812 is close, when we got a chance to invade those ne’er do well Canadians.
mateooo

[General_D.Fox]

:-D  We, in exchange, burned down your White House.  8-)  But all is good and well now (somewhat, of course.)

[Botider]

Fellas,

Back to the topic at hand … “what would you change”… some good ideas re: subs. A couple of others we’ve play tested for a while now …

• Subs can submerge immediately against fighters unless a destroyer present, then the ftrs get one shot.
• Subs can submerge after one shot from fleets if a destroyer is present.
  The German “navy” (such as it is) lasts a little longer.

A few others we really like …

• SBR rules from Europe/Pacific apply, e.g., fighter escorts and defenders involved.
• Up to 2 AA guns in a territory can fire at attacking planes… but only one fires against SBR.
• Damaged battleship repairs aren’t automatic … cost $5.
• Replaced “Rockets” with “Heavy Transports” … those rockets are lethal and there is no defense. Heavy transports can carry units up to 10 IPCs in cost (3 inf or 2 tanks!).

You guys have some good ideas here. Keep ‘em comin’. Always interesting to read what other gamers are finding fun.

Bo

[Acebob]

@General_D.Fox:

:-D  We, in exchange, burned down your White House.  8-)  But all is good and well now (somewhat, of course.)

Pleh, that was the Brits. Though the Canadians did defend very well when we led an incrusion into Canada. They stopped us and thats nothing to scoff at.

Anyway…
I do like the rules as they exist now(for the most part). I would like to see either new or changed rules for research. It seems that alot of the researches (except Superbombers and Rockets) are not worth the risk and the 5 IPCs you spend for a chance.

[mateooo]

I really like the idea of the national advantages.  While a lot of them are unfair (kaitan subs? great, just when you though subs REALLY sucked, now they automatically die), they do completely change the dynamic of the game, requiring strategy adjustments and getting away from the "I am playing a tournament game against player X so I have to open with Russia buys X INF and then GER has to buy X INF 1 AC…

I have a lot of fun playing with my friends with the NA, when we just say, “you got faster carriers? you get to reroll, but then when i get kamikaze planes, I get to reroll”

Playing as Germany with Uboat interdiction or wolfpack and you might actually buy a sub.

Changes i would make would be

1. Kaitan subs, attack at 2 still, but get to choose their naval target
2. same with kamikaze planes
3. fast carriers? make that fast carriers and battleships
4. Jap inf defending on Islands at 3? make that 3 and immune to bombard
5. lighting attack for jap? can make up to two separate drops in one turn, one inf here, one arm there…
6. german wolfpacks? make that 2 subs attack at 3… when was the last time you saw three german subs together?
7. jesus, someone needs the Abomb! US gets 1 time attack, bomb kills d6 units in one territory, or perhaps 3d6 IPC SBR… whichever
8. someone needs to fix what happens when a capital falls… perhaps the conquored nation still gets to collect income for its remaining territories, but cant purchase until they get their capital back.  This stops the lame "i cant get money from conquored allied territory until my enemy takes it, and then i take it back.  It also prevents possible abuse by purposely losing territory so that allies can grab all your territories.  I also dont like the idea of one nation taking out a nation, getting all their money, and then the next nation takes that first country out, collecting everyones money… doesnt make sense.  perhaps if a nation takes out one nation, then they are still able to purchase and collect money if they are subsequently taken out (basically, all you need is ANY capital to keep going on).

No one should ever have ANY reason to try to stall before taking out a capital… it just doesnt make sense. Of course, the Soviets camped outside of Warsaw during the warsaw uprising and watched the Germans crush the polish resistance movement when they could have intervened… but that’s completely different! And the US did the same and let the Soviets take out Berlin in order to avoid US casualties… hmm… maybe i need to rethink this.

of course, sending transports with your battleships and aircraft carriers in order to take hits also doesnt make sense in a real world sense… but we all do it anyways. I dont seem to remember battleships hiding behind transports…

oooh, quite the rant… gonna have to catch my breath
mateooo