I will just say that there can be no Bombers or Aircraft Carriers with out advanced flight.
And I prefer to use “boat anchor” place of “cat”
KJF - Now what do I do???
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I would agree with you there, but the way it stands now its not realy an option unless everybody is doing the unothodox.
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There IS a “viable” KJF…
The only problem is that, in a KJF, the OTHER Axis nation gets to run free for a while, just like Japan gets to “run free” in a KGF.
The difference is that Germany unfettered is a HECK of a lot more serious threat than a Japan unfettered…
Disallowing for that, you can go after Japan actually MORE effectiely that you can Germany… it just requires at least 1 new IC.
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@ncscswitch:
There IS a “viable” KJF…
The only problem is that, in a KJF, the OTHER Axis nation gets to run free for a while, just like Japan gets to “run free” in a KGF.
The difference is that Germany unfettered is a HECK of a lot more serious threat than a Japan unfettered…
Disallowing for that, you can go after Japan actually MORE effectiely that you can Germany… it just requires at least 1 new IC.
Does that extra IC go into Alaska or China/Singkiang? Cuz I’ve done Singkiang a couple times before.
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Variable… but actually INDIA.
Again, this is disallowing for the massive increase in German power. But the UK is the nation that needs to be brought into the Asian theater of battle, and the best place to do that is India.
Russia sends land forces to counter against Japan’s moves via China and Bury; UK builds the IC then uses land and air, plus starting navy, to secure Southern Asia and clear the Indian Ocean. And the US builds navy to move either against the islands, against Japan direct, or to aid Russia in the Bury/SFE area.
The risk of course is that, with Russia having a split focus, and with UK sending most of their money to India, and the US going full-bore into the Pacific, that Germany will become so powerful so fast, that London is itself quickly at risk, as is Moscow.
I answered the question on the THEORETICAL of whether or not there was a viable KJF, and there is. The problem is that Japan is simply not as great a threat initially as Germany, so allowing Germany to be the Axis nation that runs free is deadly.
It would be like the Axis executing a KUSAF… it CAN be done, theoretically… but allowing the UK and USSR to run free for the time required makes it a problem… Russia being a superior threat due to position and economics when consdiering a KUSAF as Germany is a superior threat due to position and economics when contemplating a KJF.
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I’m glad to see a KJF is indeed possible.
I’m thinking of placing this strategy in a game someday, too.
(I will have to play a lot of games to try all of the strategies)
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against sub par axis play only (imho) switch we all agree that india is toast j3 i am glad you listed it as ‘theoretical’ but i still think a kjf along the lines of the kbf(take their cash not their capital) could be done from south africa and the pacific, but you still MUST be putting usa and uk forces in europe or the game will be over so it is a slower approach for sure
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The best KJF that can be mustered from my mind is as follows (in short, the perfect details depends on opposition).
Russia, stacks 6 inf in Buryatia on R1, allso moves 2 Arm to Yakut. this is done to attack machuria R2.
2 Inf from Novo to Sinkiang, to defend it.UK build factory in India R1, attacks french indo china with 3 inf(india) and 1 fig sz35 (65% succes in wiping it and having atleast the fig remaining)
DD SZ35 kills Japan Trn, UK trn sail to SZ49 to prevent Japan reinforments to reach french indo china J1.USA builds factory in Sinkiang, and build fleet in pacific. (should still put a little cash on a trn or two to send to reinforce UK and make raids on germany.
Russia will in the begining have to face Germany quite alone, but when japan is pushed back of Asia continent and US navy appears they will be able to get reinforcements from india and Sinkiang (figs, arms, etc).
this is my thoughts on a usable KJF strat. (Russia will get more income then if you do KGF, and that will help holding germany at bay)
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Additonal, US round 3 they can set up a factory in Alaska moving the entire fleet there (if you have bought some carriers for defense) and then buy 2 heavy naval pieces/turn, sitting next to japan…
This can only be done if Japan doesn´t have enought strength to wipe you if he attack, but normaly people tend to buy defensivly when purchasing navy.
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if russia is sending troops east to help a kjf and are faceing germany alone what do you think the results are going to be? if russia sends 6 inf to bury the uk has to use theri fig on the kwang trannie and land in bury or else all those ruskies are dead j1 ( i would gladly skip pearl to do this as japan) i have seen the alaska complex and it can be ok but that $15 is a trannie with a dude and an art. i like a north pacific approach by usa, it forces the japanese fleet north and if the brits survived then they might be able to harass some islands or sink frindo bound trannies. if uk has a complex in south africa (i seem alone in this) then the units they produce both secure africa and pressure asia allowing the usa to spend elsewhere
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Crit, to take Bury in J1 against 6 Russian INF means Japan is going to lose a LOT of Air Force.
Japan will only have 1 TRN in J1, so only 2 land units, a BB, and their AF to attack 6 INF. The Russians will kill an average of 2 units on their first defense roll… the landing forces meaning Russia keeps bury, or the first AF unit. They will also probably get at least a second defense roll to kill another unit.
So to take Bury from 6 INF on J1 means losing 2 FIGs… a VERY bad trade, especially when faced with a KJF and NOT doing Pearl.
If you add UK’s FIG, then Japan will lose 3+ FIGs… half their AF. A GREAT trade for the Allies…6 INF, 1 FIG to kill half the Japan Air Forces!
And with all those planes dead… USA sweeps in to SZ60 with their Pearl fleet lus additional AF, drops the Sinkiang factory, and in 2 rounds, Japan is out of Asia, and is missing a fleet.
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i would use the manchurian inf as well switch, i know it weakens the china push but it is worth it to snuf half a dozen soviet inf. WITH the uk fighter things are VERY different, that is why i posted that the brits HAVE to send the fig to bury if russia stacks it r1
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How about if it lands in China after being used to take FIC…
Now you are down 1 of 3 of your continental territories on J1… China is reinforced… you have 1 TRN left… you have 6 INF in Bury… and you are down to 5 FIGs to start (losing 1 in FIC).
You can;t re-take FIC, kill China, Take Bury, and block the US fleet with what you have left. One or more has to give… and which one may mean your doom.
Leave the US in China, and you risk Kwang or Manch
Leave the Russians in Bury and you risk Manch
Don;t take FIC back and you risk Kwang, or an IC in FIC…And then of course, the US will be sending ARM and FIGs into Sinkiang with THEIR new IC…
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@Nix:
The best KJF that can be mustered from my mind is as follows (in short, the perfect details depends on opposition).
Russia, stacks 6 inf in Buryatia on R1, allso moves 2 Arm to Yakut. this is done to attack machuria R2.
2 Inf from Novo to Sinkiang, to defend it.UK build factory in India R1, attacks french indo china with 3 inf(india) and 1 fig sz35 (65% succes in wiping it and having atleast the fig remaining)
DD SZ35 kills Japan Trn, UK trn sail to SZ49 to prevent Japan reinforments to reach french indo china J1.USA builds factory in Sinkiang, and build fleet in pacific. (should still put a little cash on a trn or two to send to reinforce UK and make raids on germany.
Russia will in the begining have to face Germany quite alone, but when japan is pushed back of Asia continent and US navy appears they will be able to get reinforcements from india and Sinkiang (figs, arms, etc).
this is my thoughts on a usable KJF strat. (Russia will get more income then if you do KGF, and that will help holding germany at bay)
Some of what was suggested here is pretty much what my US friend did. An IIC, plus a huge build up in the pacific, plus russia stacking in bury, then ATTACKINg into MAnchuria afterward, taking it. then a push from the middle, and north and south prongs, pretty much wiping out any and all ground troops. Nasty i tells ya, nasty.
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there is no denying that you can put early pressure on japan with the moves mentioned, but if it is so easy how come none of us see it? simple, against competent japanese play (and german) it doesn’t work. germany is in moscow and all you have really taken from the axis is 9 ipc along the coast, at the cost of the 9 in africa going to germany as well as any russian territories they are gobbling along the way. germany at $50? i’ve had 'em there (you guys probably have too) and it is worse than japan at $50 because it ALWAYS means no more russia
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Both KGF and KJF are good ways of trying to win as allies.
I myself played as Allies only once and did a hard KGF…
next time I will try a KJF as Allies and see how this works out.I think Russia has to be albe to manage G with only a little help of UK and USA.
after all, once you spend 15 IPC’s in the first UK round for India. it takes 15 IPC’s every executive round (3 armor?), meaning you have 10 to 15 IPC’s to reinforce Russia…
USA can use the starting troops to drop in Africa and see what G is doing next. If he loses the idea of Africa, then USA can go Pacific all the way…
that should to the trick… -
US precence in Africa on US 1 in easily countered in G2. (us ships sunk, Algeria retaken.)i
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who said they should sail to Northern Africa?
:-Pif they would sail to Northern Africa, and G has AF nearby, BB in range,… don’t go there!
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where do you want to send them? Brazil?
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Since when is Brazil a part of Africa?
You can drop USA troops south of the neutral territories as well (I think it is in USA 2…)
you can prevent G from taking territories there…
G usually won’t take his AF to counterattack loss of those territories, while he can’t use the AF against Russia that way.As for Algeria being countered and retaken? well, at least you gave G something to chew on for an extra round…
and don’t forget: there has to be German AF nearby (I think only Western will do?) and probably the BB, too (if G wants to wipe out those transports and the destroyer)…
if these are not present or nearby? then taking Algeria can be a pain in the a** for G. -
if you go algeria usa 1 then the air in both western and lybia pound your 1dd 2 trannie fleet :-(
i often go brazil usa1 then sub-sahara usa2 with another link in the trannie fleet moving to brazil, then in usa3 you have (as i previously mentioned) a 2x2x2 movng 4 units into africa and as soon as algeria does open up (german forces going east) then you can move all 6 into it dropping off 12 units. after a one round hiccup that those 12 units cover for you then have a 3x3 going into north africa. how is this related to the topic again :?
anyway i think i can link it to a KJF this way; get the atlantic shuck in place with the northern fleet a 2x2 and the southern one 2x2x2 and you don’t need as many screening capital ships (do DD’s qualify as capital ships :|) and the rest can go pacific. this is MUCH slower than a tradtional KGF obviously but if usa goes after japan too early they are just tossing boats to davey jones (imho)
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